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Thread: How to make Noe's Snus Substitute

  1. #1
    Noe
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    How to make Noe's Snus Substitute

    Ok I have been testing my batches of snus substitute & I am happy enough that they work the same way as real snus, so as promised I am sharing the recipe.

    First the ingredients you will need:
    Teabags (with tea still in them)
    200mg/ml 100% PG based unflavored nic
    24mg unflavored WTA liquid (100% PG base if possible but any will do)
    Salt (Natural rock salt, non-iodised)
    Water (Tap water is fine, since you'll be boiling it)
    Propylene Glycol (PG)
    Vegetable Glycerin (VG) (Only needed for making Los or to add sweetness)
    Flavour concentrate(s) (Super concentrates work best for this, since they add less volume)
    Sodium Carbonate (can be made from Bicarb of Soda)
    An empty air tight container or snus tin (For this purpose, Odens tins will not be good enough since they are not completely sealed, however most other brand's tins are useful)
    Prillan portion bags (not absolutely needed to make portions, the discarded tea bags will work but these work better)

    I chose Tea as the medium for my snus substitute, because it IMO most closely resembles snus, in that it is made from a leaf & is about the same size & texture as snus.
    Coffee grounds could also be used but IMO they would not be as good & the recipe would need adjusting to compensate for the acidity of the coffee grounds, tea has a more neutral PH & this makes it more ideal IMO.

    100mg/ml nic could be used but this would mean more PG base is being added to the mixture than needed, which WILL change the taste of the end product, however if you want to make regular strength snus then it could be substituted & used in place of the 200mg/ml for making High strength (like odens exteme) at 1:1.
    To make High strength snus substitute, you will really need 200mg/ml unflavored nic, unless you want the end product tasting chemically.

    To make Sodium Carbonate, get some Bicarb (available at any supermarket), I used enough to fill a snus tin - which is going to last for ages, place some bicarb in an oven safe dish & cook in thge over at over 100 degrees Celsius for 1hr.
    I did it at 110 deg for 1hr 15min just to be sure it had all been converted.
    This ingredient may not be essential, although it is an essential ingredient in making real snus from tobacco, however since we are already using freebase nicotine it is possible that it could be omitted but freebasing the nicotine is not its only role.
    There are 2 other roles this has, first it is an alkaliser, used to change the PH of the end product, much of the "burn" in strong snus comes from the alkaloids that are added to it, such as Sodium Carbonate, so be careful not to add too much of this or it could make your snus too alkaline.
    The second role it plays is it gives snus it's distinctive taste & in my testing, I found that it did indeed make the substitute taste more like the real thing with this added to it.

    The empty can or cans are needed for storing your snus but also, you will need to "steep" the snus for a week, in the air tight cans in the fridge, before the snus is ready for use.

    Prillian bags make making portions easy, they can be purchased here: Prillan Snus Bags
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  2. #2
    Noe
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    Method:

    The Tea bags I have used (2 different brands), contain approx 1gram of tea in them each, which makes it fairly simple if you don't have scales to know the amounts to use.

    First you want to brew the tea, you can drink it but be sure not to add sugar or milk to the cup before removing the tea bag.
    Then you want to brew it probably twice more, the idea is to get as much of the tannins & flavour out of the tea as possible, on the third brew I allow the teabag to sit in the cup for around 30mins or more & squeeze the bag to get as much color out of the tea as I can.
    When the tea bag is not releasing much color at all, then it is ready for use for our purpose.

    The minimum I have made is 3 tea bags or 3gms, however if you are using an old snus tin, 6 tea bags worth will almost fill it fully, possibly 7 could fit in.

    Once you have your tea bags (I have been having a cuppa & saving the tea by storing it in an airtight container in the fridge), you will need to dry the tea out again, completely.
    For this I have found that using an oven proof dish & putting the tea into the oven at 80 degrees Celsius for around 1hr dries the tea without "cooking" or burning it.
    Before putting it into the oven remove the tea from the bags, then spread the tea out in the dish in a shallow layer, this will help speed the drying process.

    When the tea is dry it is time to add the nic & other wet ingredients, first the nic.
    For every tea bag used, assume 1gram dry weight or weigh the tea to get a more accurate measurement, you will want to multiply the dry weight by 2 thus 3grams x 2 = 6.
    This is the figure to use for adding nic so if you want 20mg/gm (eg. Odens Extreme strength) then you need to add 6 x 20mg = 120mg.
    If using 200mg/ml unflavoured nic then you would need 0.6ml nic to add to the 3 gm of tea, to make 10mg/gm tea snus you could add the same amount (0.6ml) of 100mg/ml unflavoured nic.

    Next you need to put the kettle on again & boil some water & here's a slightly more tricky part, esp if you don't have scales that measure small amounts.
    For every 1gm of dry tea, you will want to use 0.1gm-0.2gm of salt, I have been using 0.1gm & find it is similar to snus with a lower salty taste, 0.2gm would be closer to snus with a high salty taste.
    If you don't have scales then 1/4 teaspoon, halved or 1/8 teaspoon will be enough for 3-4 tea bags worth of mixture, after your first batch is made & tested you can adjust this amount to your own preference.
    Put the salt into a dry cup & use a syringe to measure 2ml of boiled water out of the kettle, put that into the cup & dissolve the salt into it.
    When the salt is completely dissolved add the salt water to the tea snus.

    Next add the flavour concentrate, to calculate the amount do the same as you did with the dry tea weight & multiply it by 2, so 3gm dry tea x 2 = 6.
    Now you can use 6 as 6ml of ejuice, so if you would add 10% flavour concentrate to your DiY juice, then you would do the same with the 6ml figure = 0.6ml, for 5% it would be 0.3ml etc.

    Next add some WTA liquid, it is generally advised for ejuice to add 10% WTA per volume of juice, so remembering the 6 (3gm x2 = 6) 10% is 0.6ml.

    Now since this is obviously making more than 6ml or 6gm I will just make a note at this point; the WTA liquid also contains nic (usually 24mg/ml) so 0.6ml = 15mg aprox of extra nic being added, which is fine the end result will still be at an acceptable level & strength as desired.
    We aren't making this for commercial purposes so knowing precise amounts isn't strictly needed, as long as we know it is within the range we want for our use & safety.
    , certainly the nic content wont be above 22mg/gm (which is equal to Odens Extreme strength).

    Next mix the tea snus with a fork until you get an even consistency, when it all looks the same & has been thoroughly mixed to distribute flavour & nic evenly, you can take a very small pinch & taste test.
    At this poiont you want to assess if the product tastes flavourful enough & if not add more flavour concentrate, also you want to assess the wetness, if it is too dry, add small amounts of PG (0.1ml) & mix in again before adding more, until the desired moisture level is reached, this will vary depending on a few factors but the biggest being the type of flavour concentrates used.

    Lastly, you need to spread the snus out in the dish (for the entire time from drying in oven to transferring to snus container, I kept my tea-snus in the oven proof ceramic dish) evenly & use a similar amount of Sodium Carbonate as you did salt ( for this I approximated in small pinches). Taking a pinch, sprinkle the SC roughly evenly over the tea-snus, 2 -3 pinches should be plenty to give a light even covering over the tea-snus.
    DO NOT use too much Sodium Carbonate, this can & will burn your gums if you add too much, it is better to add too little than to add too much.
    When I make my batches, I have the tea spread out so it is about 2mm to 3mm in depth in a shallow layer, then sprinkle with SC so that it has a light even dusting over the top of the tea, this has not come out to be too much in the batches I have tested.
    Mix this through thoroughly, again with the fork.

    Finally, transfer the tea-snus to an air tight container or old snus tin & leave to sit in the fridge, for at least 1 week.
    This givers the ingredients time to combine properly & the SC time to do its work, which will release some ammonia gas( at least it does in tobacco snus & I believe this is where the "raw" taste comes from").
    You can test the snus now but it will taste very "raw", the 1 week of fridge steeping makes a huge improvement to the taste.

    NOTES:

    1) In my testing, I found that the tea that has smaller leaf size, came out looking closer to real snus, I am unsure of the exact brand of tea this was though, since it was what we had at hand from a hotel we visited & it just had the hotel name on the wrapping. Twinnings tea is the other brand I tested & this has a larger leaf, which still worked but does not quite look as close to the real deal snus.

    2) The rate at which nic is released from this product seems to be initially slightly faster than the equivalent snus pouch, I think this is due to much of the nic sitting on top of the tea leaves & not being absorbed inside them.
    However I did not find it to be too great a difference to real snus & the release length seems to be on par with that of real snus or perhaps not quite as long but from a 20mg tea-snus pouch you will get (dependant on flavour) at least 1hr-1.5hrs use.

    3) If you want Los snus, for use without pouches you will need to use VG to help the tea snus "clump" better, I have not tested making tea snus designed to be used for the purpose as Los but I would substitute at least 1/2 of the PG based ingredients with VG based ingredients, however this will also add sweetness to the end product & to balance that you will need to add more salt, perhaps as much as 0.2gm per dry tea weight.
    Last edited by Noe; 03-06-15 at 04:17 AM.
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  3. #3
    JWH
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    Noe you are a legend!
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noe View Post
    ...

    To make Sodium Carbonate, get some Bicarb (available at any supermarket), I used enough to fill a snus tin - which is going to last for ages, place some bicarb in an oven safe dish & cook in thge over at over 100 degrees Celsius for 1hr.
    I did it at 110 deg for 1hr 15min just to be sure it had all been converted.
    ...
    When I made Sodium Carbonate (to extract WTA from tobacco), I was told to bake Bicarb at 250C for an hour. Do you have a reference for your figure?

    Sorry about being slightly OT.
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  5. #5
    Noe
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtadmin View Post
    When I made Sodium Carbonate (to extract WTA from tobacco), I was told to bake Bicarb at 250C for an hour. Do you have a reference for your figure?

    Sorry about being slightly OT.
    I took it from a home made snus making recipe, one that uses actual tobacco.
    I figure if it is good enough for that then it will be good enough for this, the thing is what it does in the real snus is freebase the nic in the tobacco but our nic is already freebased.
    So essentially it is there to change the PH & for flavour.

    I did test it for taste & compared to bicarb it tastes different, so I can only assume it works even if it is only in part but the "fizz" you'd normally get when tasting bicarb was completely gone.
    Maybe the 250 deg was meant to be F?

    Perhaps we can ask a chemist like SS600?
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  6. #6
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    Gassing off of CO2 and H20 in sodium bicarbonate begins around 100 deg C and is complete by 200 deg C

    2 NaHCO3(s) -> CO2(g) + H2O(g) + Na2CO3(s)

    edit ....Its why its Baking soda yields gases when heated making shyte fluffy n yum
    Last edited by Fatman; 15-08-14 at 11:43 PM.
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  7. #7
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    It was 400F but perhaps my source was wrong, and I don't want to derail.

    ETA: thanks Fatman for the clarification
    Last edited by gtadmin; 15-08-14 at 11:54 PM.
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  8. #8
    Noe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatman View Post
    Gassing off of CO2 and H20 in sodium bicarbonate begins around 100 deg C and is complete by 200 deg C

    2 NaHCO3(s) -> CO2(g) + H2O(g) + Na2CO3(s)

    edit ....Its why its Baking soda yields gases when heated making shyte fluffy n yum
    So at 115 deg C for 1hr will the majority of the bicarb be converted to what we want FM?
    I guess what I'm asking is what would you recommend to get the result we want?
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  9. #9
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    I would put it in cold, start oven and take it all the way to 200C Noey , I would give it say 10 mins at 200, less if there is noticeable discolouration ( unless you are using lab grade bicarb there could be minor impurities that burn a little ?)... at that stage you are pretty much guaranteed full decomposition ... store it dry and sealed

    It will depend on what bicarb you are using but yeah a long stint at lower temp (120-150) or a gradual raising to target temp ( 200) should convert the majority taking it to the high point just makes it more certain of a higher grade decomp.
    Last edited by Fatman; 16-08-14 at 12:26 PM.
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  10. #10
    Noe
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    My method has been added in the post I reserved below the OP.
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