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Thread: WS-3 is GO!

  1. #21
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    Now this seems to be all done & dusted.
    And taking for granted that their are no dumb questions.
    What the frak is a WS-3 ???
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snidely_Whiplash View Post
    Now this seems to be all done & dusted.
    And taking for granted that their are no dumb questions.
    What the frak is a WS-3 ???
    It's a cooling agent. It gives a cold mouth feel, literally. It works well with fruits, all kinds of menthols and mints, tobaccos etc.

    Menthol is kind of cool, but it adds as much flavour as it does cool. WS-3 is way colder than menthol, and colder than a lot of other cooling agents as well, without adding too much flavour. At worst, WS-3 should be very slightly minty but only at extremely high concentrations and at that point you probably won't notice because your face will be numb.

    It's expensive though, and hard to get. Hence the co-op.
    Last edited by fabricator4; 10-06-17 at 08:50 AM.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  3. #23
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    Usage notes for WS-3
    =============
    After I get the WS-3 I'll start testing, and will probably update these notes over in the DIY thread, but for now here's what I know from reading

    Form: white crystalline powder
    Toxicity: Granted FEMA GRAS status in 1975 (not toxic in any reasonable amounts - up to 1200ppm in chewing gum)
    Melting point: 91C at 760 mm/Hg (I have no idea why it's given for lower than normal sea level pressure)
    Boiling point: 340C at 760mm/Hg. This tells me that it's probably very stable and won't break down at vaping temperatures (compare 120C for sucralose for eg.)
    Not soluble in water (.002138% w/v)
    Not soluble in VG
    Soluble in PG (10.7% w/v)
    Soluble in 96% ethanol (186% w/v)
    Soluble in 60% ethanol (14.8% w/v)
    Other names: N-ethyl 2-isopropyl-5-methylcyclohexanecarboxamide, N-ethyl-p-menthane-3-carboxamide

    The most useful solubility for us is PG, and I recommend max 10% w/v in very warm PG - there is no point trying to go higher. For those in very cold climates, you might see some re-crystalisation at colder temperatures in which case you will need to warm it and re-dissolve the crystals. Alternatively you might wish to add the correct amount of powder to the PG component of your e-liquids during mixing. Dissolve the WS-3 before adding the VG or water components.

    WS-3 works because it activates receptors in the cold temperature sensing nerves (for the technically minded, it's an agonist to the TRPM8 receptor). This is similar to way that hot chili works on the heat and pain receptors.

    For those needing a max VG solution, dissolving in 60% alcohol would be an option. WS-3 has a very high solubility in 94% alcohol if anyone has the means and would be one way of getting a highly concentrated (186% w/v) solution (not really recommended because the best storage method is as a solid, at room temperature - store in a cool dry place).

    It's also possible that we only need to dissolve the WS-3 to 5% w/v and use it at about 2% in the recipe. I'll probably be erring on the side caution and doing it this way for my first tests.

    Looking forward to getting my hands on it now, should be fun.

    ETA: Safety Notes
    I guess some safety pointers would be great idea too.
    1. Everything I've read indicates that getting the raw ingredient powder in your eyes would be a really bad thing. Expect pain
    2. Similarly I think inhaling the compound as a dust would bad - don't snort it and expect it to end well
    3. Basically, treat it with caution as you do for concentrated nicotine and it will be fine - don't sniff, snort, rub it in your eyes, and immediately clean up your work area if you drop any.
    Last edited by fabricator4; 10-06-17 at 04:47 PM.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  4. #24
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    Thanks Fab,
    post #22 sorted it,
    &
    post #23 explained a lot more.

    Let's see how this stuff turns out.
    fabricator4 likes this.

    I Do Whatever I Want,
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    And If It Doesn't Suit You,
    Go Start Your Own Empire

    Anything I write on this Forum is purely my opinion and should never be read as fact!
    (or I could just be wrong)
    Please read the Forum rules
    (or wait for Johnny Depp to do the movie)
    Small reminder
    It's all about the cigartte ... Stupid



  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snidely_Whiplash View Post
    Thanks Fab,
    post #22 sorted it,
    &
    post #23 explained a lot more.

    Let's see how this stuff turns out.
    Thinking of running another co-op?
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by fabricator4 View Post
    Thinking of running another co-op?
    20 shares in a kilo of Colombian marching powder?

    tapatalk for photo upload 👍
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    Snidely_Whiplash likes this.
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  7. #27
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    ... depends on how far you have to march...
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  8. #28
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    OK better make it 10 shares then.

    tapatalk for photo upload 👍
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    Rabid non-smoker since 1630hrs 25/11/2016.

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  9. #29
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    Damn! Been a few weeks since I trawled here... Bummer I missed the call up!
    If anyone is interested in splitting their share, or got way too much for themselves, I'd be very happy to buy a slice of the action?
    *hopeful*

    Sent from my A1601 using Tapatalk

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by simbla View Post
    Damn! Been a few weeks since I trawled here... Bummer I missed the call up!
    If anyone is interested in splitting their share, or got way too much for themselves, I'd be very happy to buy a slice of the action?
    *hopeful*
    Many of us have been using Hiliq's cooling agent and find it very good:
    https://www.hiliq.com/en/cooling-age...-e-liquid-30ml

    I don't *think* it's WS-3. Possibly WS-23 at very high concentration, maybe. They aren't saying what it is but it's good. Expensive, but good...
    It might be an option if people don't want to part with their bulk supply of WS-3 ;-)

    Oh, and yes the co-op happened very quickly indeed... this time around.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

 

 
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