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Thread: Concentrate percentages rule of thumb

  1. #1
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    Concentrate percentages rule of thumb

    Something that's been puzzling me for a while.

    I know that everyones taste is different and there are also differences in strengths between the flavour brands and even the types of concentrates used and that they all diffuse differently (hence steep time). So I'm going to pose the following questions as in generally or "rule of thumb". I'm also talking about multiple flavour mixing like 2 or 3+ and I'm aware that this question borders on adjunct flavouring.

    I've been doing quite a lot of looking at recipe threads both here and on other sites and there seems to be a large variation on the percentages of concentrates used in a mix. I've seen differences of between anywhere from e.g. 10% up to 25%, just as there seems to be a big difference between steep times from a day to a month etc.

    A couple of conclusions that I've come to is that for a "quick" steep time (you want to vape it asap) you have less concentrates. And for a longer steep time, more concentrate percentage (you have plenty of juice and are prepared to let it steep LOL). There are members who have a lot more experience than I do so am I correct in this assumption ? If I am correct, then this tells me that possibly the concentrates lose their potency over time. True or false ?

    And from my experimentation so far (bear in mind I am very new to DIY) it seems that the best overall flavour level comes from recipes that range from 18% to 25%.

    Would be interested to know what others have experienced ?
    Cheers
    Sodd

  2. #2
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    Generally percentages depend on what brand of concentrates used,and then their is the american factor,Yanks love suger so half there recipe percentages and you should be good to go.
    davee and avtek like this.
    In constant chain vaping....Because vaping nicotine makes your mind more active.....

  3. #3
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    You will find some concentrates that only need half a% to be strong enough. Such as TPA Caramel Cappucino. A lot of FA concentrates only need about 3-5%.

  4. #4
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    Good point Necro, something I'd never considered.

    Davee, know what you mean on that score. 2% of Tiramasu is very dominating and could be dropped back to 1%

    Cheers
    Sodd
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  5. #5
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    I think it's the other way, loads of my juices taste fine after a day or two of sleeping, leave it a month and they're overpowering. To me the longer the steep the less concentrate needed.

    On the ECF and Reddit DIY sections they have recommended percentages for most concentrates, having had a brief look in the past there is no such thing as a standard percentage across the range from one concentrate maker, let alone all of them.

    I think you also need to be careful some DIY people seem to be insane. Loads of people claiming Grant's Vanilla Custard is Capella Vanilla custard at 18%, make it up, steep it for a month, vape it and tell me it doesn't make you want to vomit due to how stupidly strong it is.
    Noe, davee and avtek like this.

  6. #6
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    Thanks Quom I'll find those sections you are talking about and have a look.

    For a newbie, this thread is shaping up pretty good and is starting to answer a few questions.
    Cheers
    Sodd
    maggie likes this.

  7. #7
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    I'm with you Quom. I found Capella's VC more than strong enough at %5.
    I think I've posted this before, but save you hunting for it..

    FlavourArt - list of global resellers here. Best prices I've found so far at ecigExpress (30ml) and me (3ml).
    Some of their flavors are very strong while others are average in strength, and have overall been reviewed as good quality. They taste more realistic and natural than other companies, many flavors have an Italian style to them, and unlike most companies they are not innately sweet. A full list of flavors and safety information here. Sometimes FlavourArt seems to take a little extra time to fully diffuse through the final solution, probably because it's so concentrated

    Koolada 1 drop per ml. 10 for 10ml bottle.
    Sucralose Sweetener about 1-3 drops per 10mL.
    FlavourArt average strength needed: 2-15%
    Apple Pie 5% 4/5
    Spicy Cinnamon Candy: ?%, 1/5
    Butterscotch: 10-15%, 5/5
    Cappuccino: 10-15%, 5/5
    Cherry: 10-15%, 5/5
    Chocolate: 5-10%, 5/5
    Citrus Mix: 10-15%, 5/5
    Cocoa: ~5%, 5/5
    Coconut: 5-10%, 5/5
    Cookie 10%
    Concord Grape: 10-15%, 5/5
    Cookie: 5-10%, 5/5 <-- Recommended for combining with other flavors, not standalone.
    Mango: ~10%, 5/5
    Panettone: 5-10%, 4/5
    Pear: 10-15%, 5/5
    Peppermint: 5~%, ?/5
    Pineapple: ~10%, 5/5
    Strawberry: 10-15%, 5/5
    Vienna Cream: 5-10%, 5/5
    Whipped Cream: ~15%, 4.5/5 <-- Recommended for combining with other flavors, not standalone.

    Following %'s taken from FlavourArt's site as suggestions for flavoring usage, however many people here report using some of these at up to 15% for good flavor. User recommendations here will be added in (parentheses):

    From Flavourart representative... regarding FA starting test percentages.
    Tobacco 2%?
    Fruits 3-4%?
    Warm (chocolate, vanilla, maple caramel ) 5%?

    Perique Black 1%
    Cuban Supreme 2%
    Dark Vapure 2.5%
    Mellow Sunset 2%
    Burley 3%
    Latakia 2%
    RY4 3%
    Virginia 2%
    Maxboro Ultimate 2%
    Cowboy blend 1%
    Camel Ultimate 2%
    Shade 2%
    Desert Ship Blend 1%
    Anise 1%
    Apple Pie 3-5%
    Barley Malt 2%
    Beer 5%
    Black Cherry 3-4%
    Blackberry 1%
    Bread at 1-2%
    Butterscotch 3% Butterscotch: 10-15%, 5/5
    Caramel 2%
    Catalan Cream 5%
    Cherry: 10-15%, 5/5
    Chocolate: 5-10%, 5/5 Chocolate 2% Chocolate 4%, 5/5
    Cinnamon Ceylon 5% Cinnamon Ceylon 3%
    Citrus Mix: 10-15%, 5/5
    Cocoa: ~5%, 5/5
    Coconut: 5-10%, 5/5
    Concord Grape: 10-15%, 5/5
    Cookie: 5-10%, 5/5 <– Recommended for combining with other flavors, not standalone.
    Coffee 1%
    Coffee Espresso 2%
    Cappuccino: 10-15%, 5/5
    Custard 2-5% (davee) Nice!
    Green Tea 3%
    Hazelnut 2% (~4%), 5/5
    Hypnotic Mist 5%
    Irish Cream 3%
    Licorice 4%
    Mad Fruit (Red Bull)15%
    Mango: ~10%, 5/5
    Maple Syrup 2%
    Marshmallow 2-5% (davee)
    Menthol 3%
    Nut Mix 3%
    Oba Oba 7-10%
    Panettone: 5-10%, 4/5
    Pear: 10-15%, 5/5
    Peppermint: 3-5~%, ?/5
    Pineapple: ~10%, 5/5
    Spearmint 3%
    Spicy Cinnamon Candy: ?%, 1/5
    Strawberry 2% Strawberry: 10-15%, 5/5
    Tiramisu 4% Tiramisu 3% (5-8%), 5/5
    Torrone 4%, 5/5
    Vanilla 2%, 5/5
    Vanilla Bourbon 5%
    Vanilla Classic 2%
    Vanilla Tahity 10%
    Vienna Cream 10% Vienna Cream: 5-10%, 5/5
    Whipped Cream: ~15%, 4.5/5 <– Recommended for combining with other flavors, not standalone.
    RY4 20 -25%
    Zen Garden 5%
    Yoghurt 6%
    Watermelon at 5-9%



    The Perfumer's Apprentice - 6ml/15ml available cheaper here with coupon code "ECF"
    A relatively new DIY supplier, they are great for the price. They also sell other DIY materials and basic ingredients for mixers, notably Menthol Crystals and pre-diluted Menthol drops, diluted Sucralose sweetener (although I recommend using pure Sucralose), and Ethyl Maltol (links are to forum threads about how to use them, products are available on PA's site). A few flavors are clearly stated as being oils.
    Perfumer's Apprentice average strength needed: 5-15%
    Little_Girl has graciously blogged in detail about her experiences with a huge variety of TPA flavors. I will not attempt to reduce her analysis to numbers.
    Almond Amaretto: 5-10%, 5/5
    Apple: 10-15%, 4.5/5
    Black Cherry: 5-15%, 5/5
    Bittersweet (Choc): 10-15%, 4/5
    Caramel: 10-15%, 5/5
    Caramel Candy: 15-20%, 5/5
    Cheesecake: 5-15%, 2/5
    Chocolate: 10-15%, 5/5
    Cinnamon Red Hots: 5-10%, 5/5
    Coconut Extra: ~10%, 5/5
    Coffee 8% Davee
    Cotton Candy: 10-20%, 5/5
    Graham Cracker: 10-15%, 5/5 - This flavor recommended for combining with others.
    Lime (oil-based): 1-5%, 4/5
    Milk Chocolate: 20%, 4/5
    Peanut Butter: 10-15%, 5/5
    Pear: 10-15%, 4.5/5
    Pizza: ~5%, 5/5
    Plum: 5-10%, 4/5
    Strawberry (Davee) 2-5% 5/5 3% ideal on it's own
    Sweet Cream: 2%, 4/5 - This flavor recommended for combining with others.
    Tangerine (oil-based): 1-5%, 5/5
    Tobbaco Absolute (TA): <1%
    Vanilla Bourbon: 10-15%, 4.5/5
    Waffle: 20%, 5/5
    Watermelon 10%
    White Chocolate: (davee) 2-5% 4/5
    Wintergreen: 20%, 5/5 Sickly at this.. %10 max I think
    PA Sucralose Sweetener: 2%+, 4.5/5

    Bickford Flavors
    These are often weak relative to the rest. They're said to be good, some moreso than others. A thread on safety information for all flavors available here.
    Bickford average strength needed: 20-40%

    Tasty Puff Flavors - available cheaper here or here.
    These underdogs have received little attention but have gotten some consistently good reviews all around - here's the most extensive one. Their range of flavors isn't huge, but they seem to be worth it. Their flavors are safe for vaping, but some have artificial coloring.
    Tasty Puff average strength needed: 1-15%
    Chumpy Chocolate: 2-15%, 5/5
    Chick Magnet Cherry: 2-10%, 5/5
    Pucked Up Pineapple: 5-15%, 4/5
    Midnight Spice: 2-10%, 2/5
    Joosy Froot: 5-15%, 3/5
    Rasta Rootbeer: 1-5%, 4/5
    Electric Banana: 2-10%, 5/5
    Pimpy Fresh Peach: ~4%, 5/5
    Convicted Melon: 5-10%, 4/5
    Awesome Apple: 2-10%, 4/5
    Cotton Mouth Candy: 2-10%, 4.5/5
    Jungle Juice: 2-10%, 5/5
    Blueberry: 2-10%, 3/5
    Strawberry: 2-10%, 5/5
    Nilly Vanilla: 2-10%, 5/5



    Capella - Available in Canada at HappyVaper and a few in the US at ecigexpress.
    The flavor drops are more evenly calibrated in strength than other flavors and often innately sweet, and they specialize in more complex bakery/confectionary/drink flavors as opposed to the basic flavors. There haven't been a lot of specific reviews, but they don't seem to make anything that's just bad. Recommended for new mixers who don't want to get into combining multiple flavors right away. Their site also has a section for e-liquid use if you're wondering about safety.
    Capella average strength needed: 10-20%
    French Toast strength needed: 15-20%, 5/5
    GoodDog's review of 11 flavors.

    Faerie's Finest
    These flavors have been pretty popular partly because they are made from all natural flavors unlike most other brands. The strength and quality from flavor to flavor varies like LorAnn's but none are overly strong. A list of which ones are safe for vaping is here.
    Faerie's Finest average strength needed: 10-30%
    Butterscotch: ?%, 4.5/5
    Lemon-Lime: 10-20%, 5/5
    Pumpkin: ?%, 1/5
    Pie Spice: ?%, 4/5
    Grape: 15-25%, 5/5
    Rum Cream: ?%, 5/5
    2x Clear Vanilla: ?%, 5/5

    Seedman's Flavors
    This company carries a lot of tobacco flavors along with a few others that go well with tobacco. Since they are aimed at home-grown tobacco users, make sure you buy the Top Note Flavors (at the bottom of their page). A thread with some initial reviews and recipes available here.
    Seedman's average strength needed: 5-15%
    Honey strength needed: 5-10%, 5/5

    Other Flavoring Suppliers:
    Decadent Vapours
    Healthcabin
    Nature's Flavors - Not recommended for new DIYers, PG-Free (Use Coffee & Tea Flavoring section)
    BlueMist Vaping - 8-15% recommended.
    McCormick's Extracts - Check ingredients, some unusable.
    Spice Barn - Check ingredients, some unusable.
    Flavor West
    Splendex/EZ-Sweetz Sucralose - 0.5-1% (1-2 drops per 10ml)

    Awards Section
    When multiple brands carry a popular, similar flavor, people want to know which one to buy. There is no REAL best when it comes to flavor, this is just a recommendation.

    French Vanilla (ice cream-like): 1) PA French Vanilla 2) LorAnn Bavarian Creme
    Creamy Vanilla: 1) Capella Vanilla Custard 2) PA Vanilla Bean Ice Cream / Vanilla Custard
    True Vanilla: 1) FA's Vanillas 2) PA Vanilla Bourbon
    Chocolate Flavor: 1) Capella Double Chocolate 2) FA Cocoa / Chocolate 3) Tasty Puff Chocolate
    Coffees: FA / PA
    Toffee: 1) LorAnn English Toffee 2) PA English Toffee
    Caramel: 1) PA Caramel Candy 2) FA Caramel
    Honey: 1) Seedman's Honey 2) FA Honey
    Cinnamon (Candy-like): PA Cinnamon RedHots
    Cinnamon (Bakery): PA / FA Cinnamon, LA Cinnamon Oil (strongest)
    Cheesecake: LorAnn Cheesecake
    Licorice/Anise: PA / FA
    Tobacco: Varies - Seedman's / PA / FA
    Cherry (none are that great): 1) Seedman / FA Cherry 2) PA Black Cherry / Maraschino Cherry
    Watermelon: 1) TastyPuff (fruit) 2) FA/PA (fruit-like) 3) LorAnn (candy-like)
    Mint: 1) LorAnn Creme de Menthe 2) PA / FA
    Noe, Quom, avtek and 2 others like this.

  8. #8
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    Thanks Davee,
    You are a legend mate !!! I was just trying to find this sort of stuff.
    What you've put up needs to be stickied along with the recipe thread that got stickied.
    Cheers
    Sodd
    davee likes this.

  9. #9
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    Imo it all depends on the brand. Usually they will have a "recommended" % to mix. Go from there and you can decide if its too strong/weak for your tastes. If your talking about mixing flavours and your using all the same brands, say a tobacco flavour that states 2.5% recommended and you wanted to add say, cream and mango id use the tobacco as your base at 1-1.5% and add about .5% of the other flavours depending on which you wanted the main flavours to be and which flavours you wanted as an undertone.

  10. #10
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    Something I've noticed is that Aussies tend to not like really sweet, or really strong flavours. I've been making doublers for some friends, and they seem to think that they are great, and I nearly always use concentrates at half the recommended strength for most flavours. I always start low, and add more concentrate if the mix is too weak, or the flavours I want to come out the most, are muted. It is much easier to add a little bit more concentrate, than to dilute a mix with vg/pg or unflavoured nic. It is also easier to adjust one particular flavour, rather than dilute the whole mix.

    I also give at least one weeks steeping, (using the ultra sonic cleaner on the first day), to most juices before doing any tweeking. The flavours will change a lot in the first week.
    All opinions expressed by me, are my own, I do not represent, or speak for, anyone but myself.






    STOPPED SMOKING 11/08/13 STARTED VAPING 11/08/13

 

 
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