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Thread: Menthol Tobacco - How Hard Can It Be ????! A Tantrum & Plea for Help!

  1. #11
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    Katz I don't vape tobacco but I have a clone halo subzero recipe that I mix. A lot of the anise/licorice you can taste in tobacco vapes come from horehound rather than licorice. Horehound gives a what I would call a dirty black licorice taste rather than a bright lolly locorice. It mutes it to a background taste or enhancer rather than a seperate flavour. I could send you some subzero concetrate that I vape, its all mints, menthols, koolada and horehound. You probably would find it too minty/menthol by itself but as something you could add to your tobacco. It is already blended, balanced and sweetened so you don't need too much more.
    Last edited by Crisscross; 18-10-17 at 02:58 PM.
    Colouring My World with Elegance
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katz-in-Boots View Post
    Thanks everyone for your thoughts so far. I have been thinking about the responses.


    A fraction of a percent? I'm starting to wonder whether I'm over-flavouring here.
    Well it would be over flavoured for me, for sure. I normally finish up under 10% total flavouring, but that does depend on how strong the flavours actually are of course.

    How do you ever get to that stage though? I am very much at shake & vape stage because I haven't been able to get a recipe good enough to want to make in enough quantity to set aside & steep while still having something to vape now. This worries me because I know if I do make something I like and make it in bulk, chances are in 4 weeks time it's going to be horrible.
    There's a bit of methodology to it. I start off a new flavour with a 10ml batch. If I vape that and still like it I make a 30ml. If not, I might adjust it and make another 10ml.

    Once it gets to 30ml batches it stays that way until I get sick of mixing all the time and I'll make 100mls. Very few flavours make it that far, but I may go back to them later and tweak them. 100ml batches are about where you get some idea how the flavour is going to steep, and you may adjust the recipe a little once you get to know it better.

    My ADV gets made in batches of 250ml, so it does get a good long steep before I've finished it. I will make more a couple of weeks before it runs out.




    That's a good idea. I think some of my problem is that my tastings are limited by what most of you would consider to be almost dinosaur-era equipment.
    I can recommend one of these as it's a single coil flavour dripper that won't break the bank.
    https://www.fasttech.com/p/5869600

    This is a clone of course. They run great at about 0.4 ohms or 0.5 ohms at 30 watts. You can go higher or lower depending on your taste but 30 watts is not insane or anything.
    Last edited by fabricator4; 18-10-17 at 05:17 PM.
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    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by fabricator4 View Post
    I can recommend one of these as it's a single coil flavour dripper that won't break the bank.
    https://www.fasttech.com/p/5869600
    Edit to add: I have just now picked my second one of these up from the post office, because I wanted one to live on a BF squonker, and another to live on a mech for flavour testing.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu View Post
    Don't forget about that Hiliq cooling agent I mentioned earlier, it doesn't interfere with flavor at all and it's like the coolness of menthol. I get the throat hit from the nic, do you use nicotine in your vape..?
    Sorry, yes I realised later that it would be nicotine. I use 2mg for my day vape and only 1mg for my evening vape, so I am not getting a lot of hit from that. I imagine if you vape at a higher nic level it is much greater effect. The Koolada helps, but isn't enough on its own for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crisscross View Post
    Katz I don't vape tobacco but I have a clone halo subzero recipe that I mix. A lot of the anise/licorice you can taste in tobacco vapes come from horehound rather than licorice. Horehound gives a what I would call a dirty black licorice taste rather than a bright lolly locorice. It mutes it to a background taste or enhancer rather than a seperate flavour. I could send you some subzero concetrate that I vape, its all mints, menthols, koolada and horehound. You probably would find it too minty/menthol by itself but as something you could add to your tobacco. It is already blended, balanced and sweetened so you don't need too much more.
    Horehound, you say? Well that's another interesting variation to try. Very nice of you to offer some of your subzero concentrate, I would love to try some of that, will send you a PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by fabricator4 View Post
    Well it would be over flavoured for me, for sure. I normally finish up under 10% total flavouring, but that does depend on how strong the flavours actually are of course.
    So far mine is around 14-15% including the koolada.

    There's a bit of methodology to it. I start off a new flavour with a 10ml batch. If I vape that and still like it I make a 30ml. If not, I might adjust it and make another 10ml.

    Once it gets to 30ml batches it stays that way until I get sick of mixing all the time and I'll make 100mls. Very few flavours make it that far, but I may go back to them later and tweak them. 100ml batches are about where you get some idea how the flavour is going to steep, and you may adjust the recipe a little once you get to know it better.
    Pretty much what I've been trying to do, only I'm not getting past the 30 mls at this point. Assuming I've fixed the menthol issue, it's because I'm just not getting the tobacco right.

    I can recommend one of these as it's a single coil flavour dripper that won't break the bank.
    https://www.fasttech.com/p/5869600

    This is a clone of course. They run great at about 0.4 ohms or 0.5 ohms at 30 watts. You can go higher or lower depending on your taste but 30 watts is not insane or anything.
    Thanks for the suggestion, just that this sort of device is exactly the sort of thing that makes me want to run screaming from this room. Dripping, rebuilding attys, winding my own bits of wire, doing things with stuff called cotton bacon I'm a sweet, old-fashioned girl who still misses the days of;
    1. buy
    2. unwrap
    3. put in mouth
    4. light
    5. suck

    I understand all that there's a whole world of devices, gadgets & DIY out there which I've mostly managed to avoid thus far (but possibly not for much longer). I have used basic tanks with basic replaceable coils, even had a couple of provaris. At this point I want to sort out my juice woes before dipping my toe into the world of hardware .
    Crisscross and emu like this.
    TRUTH - just like Taste - is Subjective

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katz-in-Boots View Post
    Pretty much what I've been trying to do, only I'm not getting past the 30 mls at this point. Assuming I've fixed the menthol issue, it's because I'm just not getting the tobacco right.
    Well don't be too discouraged. It's a learning process. I've had very few mixes that got past the 30ml stage but even that shows some progress. It wasn't completely horrible, at least at first ;-)

    Probably the best advice I can give is that less is more. Using too much flavouring can give strong chemical tastes that ruin the experience. I aim for the minimum amount of flavour that will do the job. This means if I miss the mark it's just more subtle but still quite vapeable. It's also easier to add a bit more of a single flavour rather than dilute the whole lot down. Over flavouring also contributes to flavour fatigue and "vapers tongue", the bugbear of intensive flavour testing.

    Over flavouring is probably the most common mistake made by new mixers. They have a tendency to want "big" flavour, not realising it's a trap.


    Thanks for the suggestion, just that this sort of device is exactly the sort of thing that makes me want to run screaming from this room. Dripping, rebuilding attys, winding my own bits of wire, doing things with stuff called cotton bacon I'm a sweet, old-fashioned girl who still misses the days of;
    Oh yes I do understand. It's possible to formulate using factory coils but there's a couple of things to keep in mind.

    * When you change a flavour, you have to change the coil otherwise you can never be sure that what you are tasting is new flavour or if you are vaping on the old one.

    * This necessity to get rid of an old flavour can really slow down testing. With an RDA it's just necessary to pull the wick out, rinse the coil, then put a new wick in. That takes an experienced vaper only a few minutes.

    * It's hard to beat an RDA for giving the actual real flavour, especially when you start putting in little amounts of adjunct flavours.

    Having said that, there's something to be said for formulating a flavour on the device you intend to vape it on too. Different devices change the flavour in subtle but sometimes surprising ways.
    Katz-in-Boots likes this.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by fabricator4 View Post
    Having said that, there's something to be said for formulating a flavour on the device you intend to vape it on too. Different devices change the flavour in subtle but sometimes surprising ways.
    Even between my 3ml & 1ml cartos I notice a difference, even though the difference is (I thin) .2ohm, the draw is airier on the small ones.

    Funny thing about DIY juice; when I smoked I never thought about the flavour of my cigs, though I did notice differences between brands. Although I tried a few different ejuice flavours in the beginning, I soon settled on what would become my day & night flavours which I vaped for 6.5+ years, and really didn't think about their flavours after a while.

    Anyways, Crisscross is going to send me some subzero mix to try. I've ordered some Juice Whore Signature Tobacco Blend and their Menthol mix, also getting some Horehound to try instead of liquorice. Now I need to order some more little cartomizers for testing.

    Hopefully I can get back to my vaping nirvana soon.
    TRUTH - just like Taste - is Subjective

  7. #17
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    Yep, XX is a sweety isn't she? :-)

    It sounds like you are on the right track, so I expect to hear of some great results very soon.
    Katz-in-Boots likes this.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by fabricator4 View Post
    Yep, XX is a sweety isn't she? :-)

    It sounds like you are on the right track, so I expect to hear of some great results very soon.

    LOL If it can help I am happy to do so. I have a swag of older cartos that I will throw in so Katz doesn't need to waste her good ones.
    Last edited by Crisscross; 20-10-17 at 04:18 PM.
    Colouring My World with Elegance
    Started Vaping 13th October, 2011

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crisscross
    LOL If it can help I am happy to do so. I have a swag of older cartos that I will throw in so Katz doesn't need to waste her good ones.
    Quote Originally Posted by fabricator4 View Post
    Yep, XX is a sweety isn't she?

    She sure is!!! My new concentrates are scheduled to arrive today, so now I can't wait to mix up some taster mixes to steep for a few days until Crisscross' care package arrives.
    TRUTH - just like Taste - is Subjective

  10. #20
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    Any updates with your parcel and the outcome ?
    Katz-in-Boots and emu like this.

 

 
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