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Thread: Menthol Tobacco - How Hard Can It Be ????! A Tantrum & Plea for Help!

  1. #1
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    Menthol Tobacco - How Hard Can It Be ????! A Tantrum & Plea for Help!

    How hard can it be to mix up a decent menthol tobacco recipe? Tobacco + Menthol, right? For me, it's proving almost impossible. What follows is my venting frustration and a request for advice.

    background: After 6.5 years of vaping, my financial situation means I can no longer afford the premixed menthol tobacco from the US that has been my ADV. I know that my set up works well with PG75:25VG, and most premixed juices in Aus have a much higher VG % so I have to mix my own. I got myself some PG, VG & nic, and some concentrates and off I went.
    My first recipe I posted here: My First E Juice - Advice from Menthol Vapers?.

    Soon dropped peppermint from the mix & replaced with TPA/TFA Koolada, but the main problem has been trying to find a nice tobacco concentrate that works well with menthol. So far (in less than 1 month)
    The tobacco concentrates I've tried?
    Juice Factory: Blended Tobacco, Real Cig, Black & Mild, Blackfire, Tobacco Absolut
    Flavourart: Cowboy Blend, Dusk, Cam, Dark Vapure,
    TPA/TFA Dark Honey, RY4, M-Type

    That's 12 different tobacco concentrates, and I get the feeling I'm forgetting some. Most of these concentrates have weird after-tastes, with floral notes, ginger, nutmeg, honey, synthetic vanilla & caramel, or herbs. I don't want my tobacco to taste of anything other than tobacco and a hint of liquorice (I liked the liquorice in the premix I was buying). I've tried different combinations of some of these also.
    With Menthol, I started out with one from SuperVape Store, but then switched to TPA/TFA menthol, which eliminated the 'wet tea bag' taste. I knocked the bottle over & wasted some, so bought some more from a different shop, tipped it into the original bottle. Suddenly the bottle started 'freezing' (and it really hasn't been that cold in my kitchen). Then I started getting a nasty chemical after taste which built up & got worse the more I vaped. Process of elimination found it was coming from the menthol. Also discovered it had eucalyptus in it, which I hadn't detected before, don't know if it was in the original bottle. Rather than buy more of this, I got some Flavourart Arctic Winter. At 5% I can't taste the menthol at all. Even worse, every time I puff I am coughing.

    I am at a loss. In less than one month I have tried at least 15 recipes now and am at a loss as to what to do next. I seem to be throwing more and more precious $ at this problem, and vaping is becoming something I do to get nicotine, not because I enjoy it - I am not enjoying it at all. In fact I have started to dread going out for a vape. It's become a source of stress rather than something that helps me cope with stress.

    (I will say I am not completely incompetent. I also have tried to replicate my evening premix flavour, with more success. Still trying to find the perfect tobacco for that one as well, but it doesn't make me cough and it tastes nice, without horrible after-tastes.)

    All I want is a nice, simple, menthol tobacco recipe that more or less replicates a menthol cigarette. So for the ex-menthol tobacco smokers who have managed a nice menthol tobacco juice recipe, your tips & suggestions are very welcome.
    DocM likes this.
    TRUTH - just like Taste - is Subjective

  2. #2
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    Well, making recommendations on flavours is always hard. What works for me may not work for you but here goes anyway:

    For a tobacco flavour I use Juice Whore Signature Blend Tobacco. The closest I can describe it as is "a light virginia" tobacco. I use it at 4.5%, it's quite mild

    I choose to scuzzy it up a bit by using flavour art Desert Ship at 0.1%. Yes you read that right, it's about one drop in 2ml. It comes and waves at you after a couple of weeks steep. Dessert ship is nauseatingly strong, but I've heard of people using it at whole percentages, like two or three. I never met them, but I always imagine a guy with hairy ears driving a Falcon 500 and who used to smoke a pack of white ox per day and has no taste buds left.

    For menthol, I buy it in crystal form from Aussie Ecigs and dilute it to 20% w/v
    and I use it at 2%. That's moderately strong, but you can go anywhere from there.

    For cooling agent I use WS-3 I bought in in powder form for that. That's a whole nuther story because it's hard to buy in Australia. Koolada appears to be WS-3 so just use that. Hiliq.com sells excellent cooling agent (as well as nicotine) that works very well.

    For quantity of cooling agent my WS-3 usage notes should work the same for Koolada. It might also apply similarly to the Hiliq cooling agent as well, but I haven't tested that theory.




    ETA: Liquorice is a hard one. I never found one I liked, so you're on your own with that adjunct flavouring. Maybe someone else will be able to help with that one, but I'd suggest you do keep it down to adjunct flavouring levels - a fraction of a percent.
    Last edited by fabricator4; 13-10-17 at 04:50 PM.
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    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  3. #3
    CMB
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    Out of that lot the only ones that I reckon would work well with menthol is Real Cig and Cowboy Blend. What percentage of each did you use?

    Try 2% Cowboy and 0.5% Real Cig and see how you go. M-Type you need to dilute before using it or it will taste like shoe polish, use it really sparingly, if at all, its a tricky one. RY4 is more deserty, black fire and black and mild are more pipe type flavours, dark vapure is weird and not really the best to use as a base.

    Blended Tobacco may be OK, it does have a bit of that lawn clippings taste going on and it is a bit sweet though.

    Another one a lot of people use with Menthols is FA Maxx Blend.
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  4. #4
    emu
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    I second the Juice Whore Signature Tobacco blend, another really nice one is the Molin Berry FR4 which I am vaping right now and is fast becoming my favourite, you can get it at Fenix vaper in Australia now and in 100 ml bottle which is a bonus. 5% is the recommended amount and it would go well with the HiLiq cooling agent as it won't change the flavour like menthol does.

    Tobacco flavours need at least 2 weeks steeping but 6 is really good.
    Last edited by emu; 13-10-17 at 04:53 PM.

  5. #5
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    From the list of concentrates you have, I'd try 2% Cowboy blend (I've not tried it, but presumably it's supposed to taste like Marlboro) mixed with 0.5% to 1% Real Cig to get your tobacco part. IMO, everyone over-flavours tobaccos and if my memory serves me correct, cigarettes do not have a strong tobacco taste. I can't help with the menthol part though, I last had a menthol cigarette maybe 20 years ago?


    ETA: tobaccos usually need to age a bit for the flavour to develop correctly though, maybe 2 weeks to 4 weeks. Also, I recall menthol cigarettes have a very mild tobacco with the main flavour being menthol.
    Last edited by gtadmin; 13-10-17 at 06:09 PM.
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  6. #6
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    Just a thought ... if you were to mix your preferred tobacco part at 2mg/ml and your preferred menthol part at 2mg/ml, you could then add your menthol to the tobacco in varying amounts until you hit upon a mixture that suits you. Once you know the mixture (eg 35% tobacco and 65% menthol), you can then replicate that from scratch.

    Now if you get that far but are uncertain on the process of creating the mix from scratch, sing out
    Ignore the Super-moderator tag in my profile, I have resigned from that position but admin have not updated my profile as yet

  7. #7
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    Thanks everyone for your thoughts so far. I have been thinking about the responses.
    Quote Originally Posted by fabricator4 View Post
    ETA: Liquorice is a hard one. I never found one I liked, so you're on your own with that adjunct flavouring. Maybe someone else will be able to help with that one, but I'd suggest you do keep it down to adjunct flavouring levels - a fraction of a percent.
    A fraction of a percent? I'm starting to wonder whether I'm over-flavouring here.

    In the last batch I made up I'm using:

    Juice Factory Black & Mild 3%
    Juice Factory Blackfire (for a smoky taste) 1%
    TFA menthol 6%
    TFA Koolada 5%
    Flavour Art Liquirizia (liquorice) 1%

    This last recipe has seemed a bit 'in my face' apart from the Koolada, and I'd consider adding a little unflavoured to dial it back a notch .

    In desperation after the FA menthol had me coughing all the time, I went & bought a new bottle of TFA menthol (only local B&M I know of here). The nasty chemical after-taste is mostly gone now, so clearly there was an issue with that 2nd bottle I got from a different place.

    Quote Originally Posted by emu View Post
    Tobacco flavours need at least 2 weeks steeping but 6 is really good.
    How do you ever get to that stage though? I am very much at shake & vape stage because I haven't been able to get a recipe good enough to want to make in enough quantity to set aside & steep while still having something to vape now. This worries me because I know if I do make something I like and make it in bulk, chances are in 4 weeks time it's going to be horrible.


    Quote Originally Posted by gtadmin View Post
    Just a thought ... if you were to mix your preferred tobacco part at 2mg/ml and your preferred menthol part at 2mg/ml, you could then add your menthol to the tobacco in varying amounts until you hit upon a mixture that suits you. Once you know the mixture (eg 35% tobacco and 65% menthol), you can then replicate that from scratch.
    That's a good idea. I think some of my problem is that my tastings are limited by what most of you would consider to be almost dinosaur-era equipment.

    I use 3ml cartomizers with polyfil, not tanks/clearomisers but I've been using some 1ml cartos to test flavours. You can't really just wash out a carto and try the next blend/strength, really you just have to throw it away, which is working out expensive & so I'm probably not trying out as many blends/strengths as I need to. So each testing I'm making up 5ml juice and throwing out a cartomiser.

    I can't drip either because that can kill auto batteries which I use (well they are dual mode really, but I can't afford to find out if putting them in manual mode avoids the risk killing them).

    Seems I will have to buy a heap more of the 1ml cartos and continue buying different tobacco concentrates until I find something that really hits the spot. I'm only getting into mixing because I can't afford to keep buying the premix I like from the US, not 'cos I wanted a new hobby.
    emu likes this.
    TRUTH - just like Taste - is Subjective

  8. #8
    emu
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    Unflavoured is really nice if you give it a chance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu View Post
    Unflavoured is really nice if you give it a chance.
    LOL, that's where my signature comes in. For you, unflavoured might be really nice, for me it is; 'what is the point?' Where are you getting throat hit? Actually, what are you getting other than exhaling vapour? Sorry emu, not going to get a convert here. I need the hit of flavour & coolness and a little smokiness like a menthol cig. The most basic I might consider would be plain peppermint.
    emu likes this.
    TRUTH - just like Taste - is Subjective

  10. #10
    emu
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    Don't forget about that Hiliq cooling agent I mentioned earlier, it doesn't interfere with flavor at all and it's like the coolness of menthol. I get the throat hit from the nic, do you use nicotine in your vape..?
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