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Thread: A potentially unpopular opinion

  1. #11
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Toowoomba (West)
    Quote Originally Posted by gurishka View Post
    Unfortunately (or fortunately) I got booted from one such group with a 'man' claiming he knew what was safe for a mesh and so he sold 0.08ohm coils for their mechs. I merely brought up battery safety to which I got abused in a pm from the guy who knrw what safe was and 'did I include battery sag?'

    Ugh... And this guy sells these coils commercially.
    Wow, at 0.08 ohms it would have to be one heck of a battery sag. It really does depend on a lot of factors. What batteries we are talking about, for one. There's 8 amp batteries, 20 amp batteries (and a few a bit short of 20) and 25 amp batteries. The 20700's could be 30 amps, the better ones.

    The second is that these are constant current ratings we are talking about. We don't advise people go outside of these ratings unless they *really* understand the risks. That's the responsible thing to do.

    But just for the sake of the exercise...

    Assuming the battery sags from 4.2V to 3.8 (that's quite severe), then the current into 0.08 ohms would be 47.5 amps. Even if the battery is hopeless and sags to 3.2V, that's still 40 amps. The battery will do this for a very short amount of time, just a few drags.

    No, that's not in any way what I would consider safe. At the very least if you always used them this way you would be seriously damaging the batteries and have to replace them every couple of months. They'd always be running toasty hot.

    If the coils (not a dual coil) really are 0.08 ohms, and someone does a parallel dual coil (0.04 ohms) then it gets crazy fast. I think you can consider 0.04 ohms quite the definition of a short. Most accidental shorts that result in fires and explosions are probably higher than 0.04 ohms. Keys and coins don't make very good random contacts really. Possibly, 0.08 could be classified as much the same.

    I'd probably get banned from that group too.

    To quickly spin it around, it's also true that a battery can only supply a certain power, after which yes, the battery sag does get quite extreme. At that point you are getting no more power than if you had built to that wattage in the first place. Much better to build for a 60 watt vape (0.24 ohms at 3.8 volts) than still only be getting a 60 watt vape at 0.08 ohms. It's a chemical battery, not a magic electron box.
    Fatman, Fractal, merexy and 1 others like this.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

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  2. #12
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Central Victoria
    This is true fab. I accounted for it and even looked at sag graphs of the battery, a 25R. A pair of coils at 0.08, even with the best ohm reader, can still be out by minuscule amounts. But at that range I'd rather be safe than have a hard short and thermal runaway.

  3. #13
    AVF Regular
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    Nov 2016
    Southern Vales, SA
    Ignorance breeds ignorance. One of the keystones of our rapidly declining society is maintaining, and nurturing that. It makes control of the masses so much easier.

    Farcebook is probably where "don't be like Andy' got all his information, which is why he was adamant he was doing everything right, yet still lost his face.

    I certainly don't have the answers, but hope HILIQ's free freight sale keeps me safely ensconced in my cocoon of NRT bliss, while our Honourable Member's work out how to keep fleecing ex-smokers.

    At war with technology.
    Fatman likes this.
    Rabid non-smoker since 1630hrs 25/11/2016.

    Pebble fondler, living life beyond the vertical.

  4. #14
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    I hear 0.08 a lot. I have nfi where it came from, but apparently lots of B & M stores in America tell newbies that is safe on a single cell mech.

    Hate to think what these idiots will do with 2*700 batteries
    gurishka likes this.
    "Vapers- The evangelical vegans of the smoking community"
    Quote Originally Posted by btobw View Post
    1 vote for DogMan because squonkers, dogs, chooks and brevity

  5. #15
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Realisically, if vaping were to become mainstream and safe for anyone and everyone - then premixed juice and/or prefilled cartridges and mods with built in batteries with a max wattage that is safe for the batteries, is the only way.

    Vaping would have to become idiot proof. And in some ways, I'm not sure if I disagree if that were to eventuate.

    We rage against the idea of a nanny state, yet the only way to fix stupid is to take away the potential dangers unfortunately. Especially as the dumb are giving advice to people who know nothing about how to get started in vaping.

    Quote Originally Posted by rockmoose View Post
    Is Ingrid the only one who thinks my penis looks slightly vaginal?

  6. #16
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Central Coast, NSW
    I do 0.08 ohm builds all the time - it's my standard dual coil SQuape [X] everyday build. 0.08 ohm builds are perfectly fine, reasonable, fun and safe!

    ... if they're NiFe30 or Ni200, in temp control, on an appropriate device.

    FFS Bookface people - 0.08 ohm (of I assume SS or Kanthal, possibly Nichrome) on a mech though? I personally think they've got rocks in their head - but at least with builds like that, they won't be in there long!

    I really hope for their sakes I'm being all oldschool in assuming a single 18650 mech, and they're actually using dual 18650 mech boxes in parallel. I could see that being plausible (with some top notch high end batteries) if they know what they're doing. But still - not a lot of margin of error, and I hope they're checking their work on something a bit nicer than a dodgy $10 "Ohms Checker".

    Surely that can't be a real fun vaping experience, what with the thick wire gauges (and subsequent ramp up time), monumental battery sag, constant battery changes, and having to wait for the battery to cool down between vapes. I can't help but think that the same thing could be achieved much more efficiently using thinner gauges, more wraps, larger surface area, and a higher resistance.

    And no, I don't think that's going to be a wildly unpopular opinion here. I've noticed we here at AVF tend to skew a bit more towards the more conservative side of things and have a pretty strong safety focus - I suspect our userbase has a higher average age than most of the Bookface groups (excluding the more specialized high-end hardware specific ones - but they're not the ones doing this sort of thing).
    Last edited by Fractal; 22-11-17 at 06:35 AM.
    giruvian, Fatman, DogMan and 4 others like this.
    These things.

    I have some things.
    I vape them.

  7. #17
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Central Victoria
    It's 0.08ohms on a single 18650 mech mate. I think it came about when coil porn started and nichrome staple fused claptons etc came in to vaping.

    I remember watching M.Terk in one of his videos telling people it was ok with a 25R, as they could handle ultra low, because he'd been doing it for ages and it hadn't done anything (yet).

    For me that's just utter shite.

    People who are in the public's eye should be promoting far safer views!

  8. #18
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Ararat , victoria
    Should make it so that you must obtain a mech license before owning and using one , idiots that blow up their vape because of using a .05 build on the noisy cricket etc really give vaping a bad name

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
    Hoofprint, gurishka and emu like this.

  9. #19
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Hoons don't give drivers a bad name but the mine's bigger than yours brigade gives an emerging technology like vaping a very bad name.
    Also having good grammar & perceived intelligence is no indication of common sense.
    Hoofprint, DocM and emu like this.

  10. #20
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Griffith, NSW
    Ive gone that low on kanthal, lowest i ever achieved was 0.076 on my dimitri mech box even managed to get a 5 second vape out of it....shortly before i had to practice my shot put and throw it out the window on to the grass.
    Not that id ever tell this current mech generation of fools how i accomplished such a feat.

    i find it sad really, think of how much easier it would be to get vaping legalised if all mods had battery safety built in and all these cloud chucking hipsters didn't exist.
    giruvian, Fatman, DocM and 1 others like this.


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