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Thread: poor vapor from kanthal a1 32 SWG compared to nichrome 38 SWG

  1. #1
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    poor vapor from kanthal a1 32 AWG compared to nichrome 34 AWG

    ok, so got down to some experimenting tonight,

    I had a while 100ft roll of kantahl a1 32 AWG (.2mm). I wrapped a coil 6 wrap on some 3mm silica wick in a spheroid, came out to be 2ohm. Slapped on my provari and vaped at 4V.....man the vapor was weak.

    Remade another coil on my second spheroid with some nichrome 34 AWG? (i know its .16mm), 4 wrap on some 3mm silica wick, came out at 2ohm. Slapped it on my second provari vaped at 4V and man, that was the vape i was used to. Good flavor and lotsa vapor.

    Why the variation in vape considering it was the same wick same ohm coil and same power?

    any techies out there that can help me out? need to order some more wire since i been giving it out to my group who have gotten into RBAs and i don't wanna steer them the wrong direction.

    Was looking at some kanthal a1 38 SWG (.15mm) wire (from the mesh company) ...dunno if its the nature of kanthal compared to nichrome. But i did notice when i was torching the kanthal compared to nichrome, i can hold the flame to the kanthal without it melting and snapping compared to the nichrome which i founds appealing and gets rid of any break in time. With the nichrome i have to torch and then dry burn.

    If i can get some advice as to the difference of vape, might go and get me 100 ft of the 38 SWG kanthal to replace my nichrome and be torch happy with no worries

    Cheers everyone

    MMM

    PS sorry for the confusing title, i had to go google the AWG/SWG to remember which wires i was using. Ignore the SWG numbers in the title and use the AWG in the body (besides the last SWG (38 SWG) for the .15mm kanthal reference)
    Last edited by Michael-Mikey-Mike; 10-05-13 at 05:52 AM.



    2x SS GGTS, 2x GGTS, 2x UFS, 2x Ody + extension kit, 2x GG Slim, GGTB, 2x Provari, Reo Grand Kicked, 2 x cyclone with AFC, ERA RBA, 2x Quasar, 2x Tohb, 2x Zenith V2, Nemesis, Hades, Supermax, Copper Black Stingray JiB box mod and so much more

  2. #2
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    I have no thin nichrome to compare with but I have been experimenting in this area trying to tie down specifics.
    There could also be differences in the surface layers of nichrome and kanthal, this i am not sure about.

    you used same wattage but different volumes of the wick are heated overall and more importantly imo, each mm of heater is getting less watts.

    my latest wick using 3.5mm silica and 32 gauge is only 2 turns very widely spaced.
    comes in at 0.9Ω, idea being to get larger currents into less volume of wick. higher watts per turn effectively. this is working better than previous 4 wrap wicks i tried with the 3.5 wick.

    I generally find 34 gauge is better on silica than 32 gauge for these reasons and only recently started playing with the 32 again on silica, I used to use 36 gauge a great deal and may try that next. higher resistance per turn means higher wattage per turn directly at same current, to get high wattages you heed less turns though or pump high voltage.

    to me its a tuning issue, trial and error with some logic. its not just a matter of winding wire on silica at times. try a 4 turn wrap of kanthal .. would be interested in results.

    consider watts per wrap in future and see what conclusions that leads too.

    the heated volume of a 3mm wick is 9 times that of a 1mm but there is only 3 times the heater on it.
    So, you will get more vapour with 1mm wick but it clogs up, I think similar performance needs 3 times the power per turn with 3mm wick.

    How tight you wrap makes a huge difference as well.
    In order of useful: Provari V2 and V1, vamo, eGo twist, Katana v3, Hex, Orion v2, LavaTube, eGo x 6, VMAX, 510N, Tick V2, Tick V1, noEgo 18650, noEgo 14650 , Indulgence x 2, 905 6v mod, KR808D



  3. #3
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    Thanks stoney. Will keep in mind. I ripped a 1.4 ohm kanthal coil (4 wrap) out of my ERA because it was not performing as well. thought it might have been a badly wrapped coil. Thats when i tried 4 wrap and 6 wrap of kanthal (1.4 ohm and 2.0 ohm respectively) Just had me scratching my head so thought i'd see if any techies had an explanation . Thought the same power going through the same ohm coil (different turns) would give similar vape...boy was i wrong. Could be i have some dud kanthal...but really? dud wire? lol



    2x SS GGTS, 2x GGTS, 2x UFS, 2x Ody + extension kit, 2x GG Slim, GGTB, 2x Provari, Reo Grand Kicked, 2 x cyclone with AFC, ERA RBA, 2x Quasar, 2x Tohb, 2x Zenith V2, Nemesis, Hades, Supermax, Copper Black Stingray JiB box mod and so much more

  4. #4
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    You sure both Spheroids are working the same? Didn't you have to fix one not long ago?
    Move along!!! Nothing to see here.

  5. #5
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    i got some wire with the squiggle, philipino line thingy, I have used that wire a few times and get heaps more vapour out of it, I think its nichrome. It also gives me a really sore throat. vapour or otherwise, not sure..

    So I am not eliminating the wire itself as the actual reason for most of the changes. surface porosity or something, no real idea, I am just not a fan of nichrome due to the oxide layer it forms, nichrome is roughly 80% nickel 20% chrome, kanthal is roughly iron 75%, chrome 20% and aluminium 5%.

    its just my choice, I don't want to start a debate or a panic again as I have no idea ifs its a valid concern but I just prefer my insulating layer to be aluminium oxide instead of chromium oxide seeing as I _think_ I have a sensitivity to nickel or chrome, or both.

    wiki ..
    Nichrome wire forms a protective layer of chromium oxide.
    Kanthal FeCrAl alloy forms a protective layer of aluminum oxide (alumina)


    older thread here as well may help ..
    Kanthal Vs NiChrome
    Gresh11 likes this.
    In order of useful: Provari V2 and V1, vamo, eGo twist, Katana v3, Hex, Orion v2, LavaTube, eGo x 6, VMAX, 510N, Tick V2, Tick V1, noEgo 18650, noEgo 14650 , Indulgence x 2, 905 6v mod, KR808D



  6. #6
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    Yeah ckane I got the replacement parts from Perseus and been using them ever since.

    I might give it another try tonight on less wraps again and also get some thinner kanthal in.
    I did run the kanthal wick and coil at 4.5 volts for a 2 ohm coil and it was rocking it. Thinking kanthal takes more power to make it perform???
    Gresh11 likes this.



    2x SS GGTS, 2x GGTS, 2x UFS, 2x Ody + extension kit, 2x GG Slim, GGTB, 2x Provari, Reo Grand Kicked, 2 x cyclone with AFC, ERA RBA, 2x Quasar, 2x Tohb, 2x Zenith V2, Nemesis, Hades, Supermax, Copper Black Stingray JiB box mod and so much more

  7. #7
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    Sorry double post
    Last edited by Michael-Mikey-Mike; 10-05-13 at 04:50 PM.



    2x SS GGTS, 2x GGTS, 2x UFS, 2x Ody + extension kit, 2x GG Slim, GGTB, 2x Provari, Reo Grand Kicked, 2 x cyclone with AFC, ERA RBA, 2x Quasar, 2x Tohb, 2x Zenith V2, Nemesis, Hades, Supermax, Copper Black Stingray JiB box mod and so much more

  8. #8
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    ok so had a search on ECf Stoney and came to this Watts do not matter. Its all about wire temp. Read onů

    Think you might like it. Also makes me reconsider my coil i made last night too. I could have had a short (its rare i get shorts now since i have almost perfected my coil making for RBA's with silica wicks, i do get the wonky coil now and then when i am tired or in a rush).
    Gresh11 and bikam0wz like this.



    2x SS GGTS, 2x GGTS, 2x UFS, 2x Ody + extension kit, 2x GG Slim, GGTB, 2x Provari, Reo Grand Kicked, 2 x cyclone with AFC, ERA RBA, 2x Quasar, 2x Tohb, 2x Zenith V2, Nemesis, Hades, Supermax, Copper Black Stingray JiB box mod and so much more

  9. #9
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    thats what I have been saying all along .. I disagree with some of his findings though. Possibly because he is talking genesis and we are discussing silica here.

    The reason I am not doing 8 turn coils is that it rapidly degrades with silica, fresh juice can no longer get to the centre of the coil so you rapidly get burnt tasting vape. This is why I am using heavier wicks, the problem with heavier wicks is the massive juice load, there is no way without ridiculous powers you can heat it all .. so I also dispute his claim that lower temperature is better, there is a cutoff point at which vapour degrades as well as an upper range at which it burns.

    I have tried 11 turn coils on thin wick, works great for a few hours only max, sometimes not even a tank.

    unlike mesh, the coil sits closer to the wick IF its wound tight, i try to wind fairly tight to get the heater to bite in a little, if there are gaps, then they will fill with juice residue as it drys out due to heat and burn. So I have been experimenting with hot wrapping the coils to stop the coil springiness, get it orange hot and it lays down like wet spaghetti, its very fragile though.

    Glad someone else is interested enough to discuss with
    Gresh11 and bikam0wz like this.
    In order of useful: Provari V2 and V1, vamo, eGo twist, Katana v3, Hex, Orion v2, LavaTube, eGo x 6, VMAX, 510N, Tick V2, Tick V1, noEgo 18650, noEgo 14650 , Indulgence x 2, 905 6v mod, KR808D



  10. #10
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    I don't want to distract you at all but I feel honoured to witness such work in progress. I will learn all that I can here, before I embark on my own journey to vape heaven.
    As a newbie, I know I have come to the right place. Thank-you!!
    Michael-Mikey-Mike likes this.

 

 
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