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Thread: Married Batteries Now Uneven Query

  1. #1
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    Married Batteries Now Uneven Query

    Greetings.
    Have a couple of "married" pairs of batteries which are now discharging at different rates and wondering if this is a problem
    All are LG "chocolate" 3000mah bought from reputable local retailer about 7 months ago.
    I mark all my batteries with date purchased so I can track correctly.
    Am using them in Asmodus Minikin 1.5 and 2 mods and both have individual battery indicators on them.
    Should I relegate them to single batt mods and buy new ones ?
    Also have 3 batt mods x 2 which don't have individual battery indicators so don't know how they're faring
    I want to stay safe with my vaping so would appreciate any comments.
    Cheers

  2. #2
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    Are you only charging these in the mod? Hardly any multi battery mods can do a balanced charge - you need to charge them on a good charger frequently to balance them. Possibly the set is still usable if you do this.

    Apart from that, the mod should prevent you from over discharging one cell by cutting off when the weakest gets to around 3.2V
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    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  3. #3
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    Thanks, I have always charged them in a Intellicharger i4 which I realise is probably not the most sophisticated of chargers but figure it shouldn't pose a problem.
    I do usually wait till they run down quite low which maybe is not such a great idea.
    Good to know that I won't have something explode on me

    Quote Originally Posted by fabricator4 View Post
    Are you only charging these in the mod? Hardly any multi battery mods can do a balanced charge - you need to charge them on a good charger frequently to balance them. Possibly the set is still usable if you do this.

    Apart from that, the mod should prevent you from over discharging one cell by cutting off when the weakest gets to around 3.2V

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodrocket View Post
    Thanks, I have always charged them in a Intellicharger i4 which I realise is probably not the most sophisticated of chargers but figure it shouldn't pose a problem.
    I do usually wait till they run down quite low which maybe is not such a great idea.
    Good to know that I won't have something explode on me
    Unfortunately the weakest cell will continue to degrade faster, as that is the one that is being run down each time. Li-ion cells don't like to be too flat. If you always discharge them to 3.2V you'll probably get around 300 charges. If you discharge them only to 3.4 volts you may get 600 charges and so on. I'm happy to recharge when the cell gets to 3.5 volts if that is possible. (I have cells that have been in use since 2013).

    Cells should be replaced when they get to 85% of their capacity, because they will probably deteriorate more rapidly from that point on. An analysing charger is the best way keep tabs on this. Full charge from 3.2V to 4.2V will normally give you a good indication of the capacity, or some chargers will run a discharge and/or an impedance test. As you can tell though, it's possible to get some idea of the health of a battery if you pay attention to normal use and charging.
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    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  5. #5
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    Genarrly 18650 cells only have a 3-4 lifespan before they start degraded or about 200 charge cycles, its probally best to pick up new sets and recyle the old ones, i also found some mods drain one battery faster then the other.

    Sent from my SM-T530 using Tapatalk
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryce.C View Post
    Genarrly 18650 cells only have a 3-4 lifespan before they start degraded or about 200 charge cycles, its probally best to pick up new sets and recyle the old ones, i also found some mods drain one battery faster then the other.

    Sent from my SM-T530 using Tapatalk
    good point - if it's always the same slot rather than the same battery, consider if there isn't a high impedance on that slot which is the problem.
    Rodrocket likes this.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the replies
    Might have to look at acquiring a better battery charger so I can analyse them properly.
    Any recommendations please as seems there a few out there and I find it confusing ?
    Cheers.

  8. #8
    Noe
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    Sounds to me like you may not have been rotating your cells properly every time, or you were but changing the devices they were used in frequently.
    I try to keep a pair married to a mod & rotate them at every charge cycle (left slot to right slot & right to left) this way they are getting an even drain over 2 cycles.
    If you drian them once in one mod, then again in another mod, it is possible to be draining one cell more than the other this way, suppose this is the scenario:
    Mod A drains power faster on the left cell.
    Mod B drains power faster on the right cell.
    You drained a pair in mod A & correctly rotated the cells (left to right) then put that pair into mod B.

    You can see what is going to happen here right?
    This is why I try to marry a pair or set of cells to a mod.

    As for a charger, that isn't too expensive but can test your batts, I like my Opus C3100, I reviewed it here: Opus BT-C3100 V2.2 Battery Charger Review
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    So you actually want 'matched' batteries?

    Here's an idea. It's several orders of magnitude less sophisticated than what I used to use, but it might help a little at least.

    Mark each battery you have and are using and are of the same type. No mixing. Take note of which battery does what with each other battery, so in the case of the 'married' batteries, take note of which one goes flat faster. In another set (if you have them) take note of which battery goes flat faster out of that pair. Then match up 2 batteries according to how they go. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing and should make all batteries a lot happier.

    Kind of funny that folks really believe that a pair of batteries, bought together should be identical to each other and be happy together. Way back when nicads were king, they used to cost near enough to what these batteries do, but you needed 3 to each one of these things. We used to buy slabs of batteries (100) and match them on a purpose made machine. Maybe 1 in 200 wouldn't be up to 'spec', but the rest were as the label said, but finding matched packs of 6 from that 200 wasn't easy. You were doing well if you could make a half dozen great packs, a dozen or so good packs and the rest just slapped together as best you could. We'd match them first for capacity, second for internal resistance and average voltage and they'd stay together for life. If done right, you get great performance and the battery would just drop dead.

    Now they use lipos, and struggle to use up entire batteries in a race. Each cell seems to be pretty well matched to each other (only 2 of them) and the whole battery matching business is pretty much dead. They all shifted to selling lipo batteries.

    (You want to know what real performance from a battery is, go find an R/C racer. Their junkiest batteries will make the best 18650 ever made look like a toy.)

    You're aiming for something similar, but have a much smaller sample group and a much more intolerant of abuse/more energy enclosed battery to try and make it work with.

    I'm actually quite surprised nobody has had the great idea to make up and sell matched battery sets...

    Good luck,

    Stu.
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  10. #10
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    The thing no-one has really mentioned yet is that each battery is a closed chemical system within itself .. sure when you parallel them or series them you are combining those closed systems to make a bigger compartmented system but it is the individual cell itself and its composition and internal resistance that will determine how it functions over the long haul ...

    YES using dedicated pairs is recommended for dual and up mods , but this is more for the purpose of utilising a known condition battery pairing rather than just junking two cells together out of the collection that might have wildly varying drain characteristics due to being at different discharge degradation ( a year old 150 times drained cell vs a brand new never used one )
    Even in a paired arrangement batteries will over time possibly become "unmarried" due to one cell having a different internal resistance developing over time .
    It wants a divorce and is getting lazy about the relationship

    We abuse the hell out of 18650's subjecting them to repeated pulsings they were never really designed for, whack them into dodgey mods relying on a charge/balancing circuit that is added as an after-thought to many regulated circuits, and we expect perfection

    As Schtoo pointed out "Matching " batteries is a far different dark art to "pairing" them ... Matching actually evaluates each cell on a chemical and resistivity level and brings the best of a bad bunch together ... pairing is the pot luck version where because we bought the same type of cells at the same time , drained them the same , and loaded them together we hope they "wear" the same over time ... But the reality is .. they wont ...

    If you find a cell becoming unbalanced compared to its mate , and you want the best performance and safety , then its time to relegate that pair to lighter single cell duties or scrap them altogether ... batteries are cheap ... less than a pack of ciggies gets you a new pair ... remember once upon a time you were probably throwing the equivalent of 14* 18650's a week into an ashtray
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