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Thread: Whats the best for a cool vape?

  1. #1
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    Whats the best for a cool vape?

    Hello everyone.
    Years since I looked at any gear and with the variety available now, and I find myself clueless. I was looking at the Innokin Slipstream and the Pebble. Problem is I dont know what to buy so i can get the coolest possible vape..I look at the specs regarding the various wattages and I am clueless. Back in the olden days it was just go for the cartos with high resistance and that was all I knew about. I have spent days on the net trying to understand it all and I give up. Is it the battery or the coil or both, any suggestions would be very much appreciated.I just want cool vapor so what should I go for? Maybe squonking would be better.

    Thanks for any ideas.
    Last edited by gert; 20-03-17 at 01:31 PM.
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  2. #2
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    DL or MTL?

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    Quote Originally Posted by merexy View Post
    DL or MTL?
    Hi merexyl. guess I am mouth mtl.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by gert View Post
    Hello,
    Years since I looked at any gear and with the variety available now, and I find myself clueless. I was looking at the Innokin Slipstream and the Pebble. Problem is I dont know what to buy so i can get the coolest possible vape..I look at the specs regarding the various wattages and I am clueless. Back in the olden days it was just go for the cartos with high resistance and that was all I knew about. I have spent days on the net trying to understand it all and I give up. Is it the battery or the coil or both, any suggestions would be very much appreciated.I just want cool vapor so what should I go for? Maybe squonking would be better.

    Thanks for any ideas.
    Squonking is just a method to get liquid to the wick/coil, it doesn't directly influence how hot the vapour is.

    The current trend to sub-ohm coils goes hand in hand with what we call DL or direct lung vaping. This is where higher wattages are typically used, and large amounts of air are drawn over the coil to create a large amount of vapour. This type of inhalation necessarily has to be done in one big inhale - directly into the lungs as it were. Because of the large volume of air and vapour, liquid consumption is also very high. The nicotine content therefore needs to be reduced to 6mg/ml, 3mg/ml or even lower. Very high VG liquids are also used because at these volumes and this kind of power PG becomes quite harsh. A lot of the new stuff is made with large liquid ports so the wicks can take in a large amount of very viscous liquid quickly. Consumption for these kinds of devices can approach 30mls a day for some people, and some of these devices have up to eight coils in them to achieve this. Note that the actual temperature of the vapour is a lot more complex than just the power applied to the coils. Large amounts of air take more power to heat up, more coils means that the power seen at each coil is much less, and then there's the personal characteristics controlled by the vapers such as the exact power setting used, the opening used on the AFC (air flow controller) and how rapidly the air is drawn in through this AFC. A wide range of actual power is used by people depending on their preferences - from 50 to 150 watts.

    I think what you really need to know though, is what devices are more suited to the old style of vaping, now known as MTL (mouth to lung) vaping. This generally has a much tighter draw, is done now at powers typically in the 10 to 15 watt range, and mostly with higher PG juices and higher nicotine strengths to still give a satisfying vape. A good modern MTL setup can give a much more satisfying vape than the cartos, top coils, and the first generation of bottomer coilers like the CE3 (anyone still remember these? I loved them in 2013) and protanks (I and II).

    Note that the actual temperature of the vape is still dependant on the amount of air, power settings etc that you use on these devices. It's possible to have a hot MTL vape, same as you can have a hot DL vape, so the actual temperature while important for the experience, is not enough on it's own to define what type of vape you are looking for.

    What we do now know however, is that for MTL vaping the velocity of the air over the coil is critical for a good MTL experience. Early in the development of sub-ohm it was thought that you could make it a MTL device just by choking the air with the AFC. This just resulted in very low velocity air over the coil in a lot of cases, and a very poor (harsh, poor flavour) MTL experience. True MTL devices give a far better experience than earlier devices, and the most common nicotine strength used by established vapers with a high dependency would be 12mg/ml

    There is a third class of vapers which I class myself in, and I think a lot of sub-ohm vapers may fall into this category. We may use higher PG ratios - typically 50/50 these days though up to recently I was still mixing 60/40 PG/VG. We might use slightly higher nicotine strengths - over 6mg/ml but not usually over 12mg/ml in these devices. We like to see a large amount of vaper, but not stupidly so. We don't want to use ridiculous amounts of liquid every day. Higher PG and higher nicotine give high satisfaction levels for throat hit, nicotine primary effects, and the amount of vapour. I call us "tweeners" but the community doesn't seem to recognise this type vaping, or have an official name, though like I said I believe that a lot more sub-ohm vapers fit into this category than put there hands up for it.

    If you want a purely MTL device, things to look at would be:

    Nautilus 2
    Nautilus X
    Nautilus mini
    Cubis
    Kabuki
    Kayfun 4
    Kayfun 5 with reducer set (gives higher velocity over the coils)
    Kayfun mini
    Prism (comes with the T18 and T22 starter kits)
    Triton 2
    Vika Fantasy

    Which one you pick might first depend on if you want something that is re-buildable or something that takes factory heads.

    For something that is flexible, can do MTL OK but ventures into the DL area (tweener) is the Kanger subtank, or the toptank which is the top fill variation of it. The Protank 4 uses the same heads as well. The kanger stuff uses factory heads, but they also come with an RBA deck, which is what I use. It gives greater flexibility over how I vape. Typically you use higher resistances for MTL, and lower resistances for DL. There's a lot of crossover depending on the preferences of the vaper. I started off vaping it at higher wattages (like 30 watts) but over time have settled back to to around 18 to 22 watts. I probably use less liquid now than I did on the protank II's, and at lower nicotine strengths (8mg/ml). I'm a direct lung vaper and always was, but definitely on the cooler side of things. Oh, I blow huge clouds occasionally, have been known to jam dual coils into the Subtank RBA, and run a dripper sometimes at high wattages, but those are not my ADV. ;-)

    As I always say, if you struggled with the restricted air on some of the older devices then you might like something like the Toptank. I always used to drill out things like the Protanks to loosen up the airflow and even then it was a bit too restricted, and I DL almost everything, even MTL devices.
    Last edited by fabricator4; 20-03-17 at 02:29 PM.
    gert, merexy, 1ynne and 1 others like this.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

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    ... and I'll just add here that if you are currently undecided which way to jump and what to buy, buying a T18 or a T22 starter kit is not a completely stupid first move. They are simple, give a good MTL experience but with potentially more air than older stuff fed through the 510 connector, and even if you move on to other stuff it is still a handy backup to have in the bottom drawer or to PIF to smoker that might want to switch. Backups are just as important these days as they ever were.
    gert likes this.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by gert View Post
    Hi merexyl. guess I am mouth mtl.
    Higher resistance, small chambers, longer chimneys. I feel you'd be like me. Go old school, plenty of stuff still out there and a lot of it new. Most modern tanks will be way too airy for you.

    Kayfun lite
    Russian 91%
    Tilemahos (older versions)
    CloudOne
    Rose V2
    Five Pawns Kayfun
    Gus Phenomenon Lite (my personal favourite)
    Fluff tanks
    Pico's may be a tad warm for you

    There are more.....

    BTW, all these need building.
    Last edited by merexy; 20-03-17 at 02:30 PM. Reason: Added a bit
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by fabricator4 View Post
    ... and I'll just add here that if you are currently undecided which way to jump and what to buy, buying a T18 or a T22 starter kit is not a completely stupid first move. They are simple, give a good MTL experience but with potentially more air than older stuff fed through the 510 connector
    I will just mention first that the T18 gives a fairly warm vape. I like it because it's like an analogue, but you might not.
    gert, fabricator4 and 1ynne like this.

  8. #8
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    aspire K1 with a very long driptip is quite cool and favoursome.
    The longer the driptip is the cooler it is by the time it gets to yer gob.
    I just tired it with multiple stupidly long driptips joined and it was silly but v cool.
    and wind down the voltage or watts
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  9. #9
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    As it has not been mentioned, I will.

    Temperature control or just TC.

    I found at first MTL devices too restrictive, moved to lower ohms and larger air flow. However this can result in higher temp vapes, which I did not like. TC came around at about this time and I was quite an early adopter and have been using it ever since. TC controls the tempreture at the point of producing vapour by sensing the change in the wires resistance. Kanthal is not suitable for this as the wire only slightly changes in resistance so other wires were used. At first it was nickel, Ni. Then titanium, Ti. then Stainless Steel, SS. SS is by far the best and can also be used in wattage mode where ti and ni can't. There are other wires as well but they are the common 3.

    These days I still use a sub ohm tank, but not one with ridiculously big air flow holes and an RBA on which I build my own SS coils. Most regulated devices these days offer TC in their menus. It could be worth a look into.
    gert and muscovyduckling like this.
    Last cigarette, 11:00 AM 11th March 2015.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cams View Post
    As it has not been mentioned, I will.

    Temperature control or just TC.
    I've kind of been avoiding TC for noobs and for long term vapers who come back behind the technology curve. The latter was me about 15 months ago. Over three years on mechs and protanks and then things break and you are like "WTF happened"?

    The reason I'm cautious about recommending TC is not because I don't like it; I think it's brilliant, tech nerd that I am. There's two main reasons - it takes more know-how to keep it running right - bad results are assured if you don't understand the TC wires or that you have to set a baseline at cold, or that even a 0.02 ohm variation in the coil will mess you up. Setting a baseline with a hot coil is going to give you a dry hit every time... and the second reason is I just don't think it's mature enough. Chinese companies seem to be rushing stuff to market with very poor or even buggy TC implementations.

    DNA stuff is OK from what I can gather, but usually more expensive for a first time test of the tech, and may need some tweaking to get it right. Stuff that is generally considered "OK" like the Evic/eleaf/Wismec I've noticed problems with - Replacing the firmware with Arctic Fox and doing a heck of a lot of tweaking gets me to where it runs perfectly (and I DO mean "perfectly") but that's for advanced users IMHO.

    I wish I could recommend temperature control, but I think it's something that people are better off finding for themselves when they are ready for it.
    gert and gtadmin like this.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

 

 
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