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Thread: Another study says we aren't hurting anybody (including ourselves)

  1. #1
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    Another study says we aren't hurting anybody (including ourselves)

    New Study: No Evidence E-Cigs Cause Cell Damage or Death | Ecig Advanced News
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    I'm not sure that article accurately summarises the testing. I looked at one eliquid in that study, not the coffee one mentioned, and it did indicate cytotoxicity, tho not to the point where the substance itself can be called a toxin. I don't know how one can conclude that ecigs are 0.1% as dangerous as cigarettes from that.

    What it does demonstrate is that risk will vary from liquid to liquid. I really want them to test eliquids that contain tobacco specific nitrosamines.

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    Humbuggery.. every post you make seems to be about maximising and sensationalising potential harm from e-cigs, and especially tobacco extract (without evidence I might add).
    I wonder what your agenda is ?

    If you're vaping anything with nicotine, then you're getting a small amount of nitrosamines.
    If that worries you, then don't vape.
    Last edited by Greg; 12-06-13 at 09:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbuggery View Post
    I'm not sure that article accurately summarises the testing. I looked at one eliquid in that study, not the coffee one mentioned, and it did indicate cytotoxicity, tho not to the point where the substance itself can be called a toxin. I don't know how one can conclude that ecigs are 0.1% as dangerous as cigarettes from that.

    What it does demonstrate is that risk will vary from liquid to liquid. I really want them to test eliquids that contain tobacco specific nitrosamines.

    I asked where you drew that conclusion from as I could not see the figure of 17% that you quoted.
    still asking ..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Humbuggery.. every post you make seems to be about maximising and sensationalising potential harm from e-cigs, and especially tobacco extract (without evidence I might add).
    I wonder what your agenda is ?

    If you're vaping anything with nicotine, then you're getting a small amount of nitrosamines.
    If that worries you, then don't vape.
    I agree..fucked if I understand yr agenda....prove a point to yr self..prove a point to us...really ? What is yr point ? Your whole n sole point on vaping ? If its rattling yr skull so hard just go cold turkey an be done..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Humbuggery.. every post you make seems to be about maximising and sensationalising potential harm from e-cigs, and especially tobacco extract (without evidence I might add).
    I wonder what your agenda is ?

    If you're vaping anything with nicotine, then you're getting a small amount of nitrosamines.
    If that worries you, then don't vape.
    You seem to be under the entirely false assumption that tobacco specific nitrosamines are some kind of corollary of nicotine or that it is produced as a result of burning. TSNs escalate in value astronomically during the curing process. You can safely use green tobacco as a salad dressing, and in fact chefs have used it in cuisine. You certainly cannot eat cured tobacco leaves, and not just because of the nicotine content, but because of those nitrosamines. If an eliquid is made from fully cured tobacco it will have shitloads of nitrosamines unless someone has taken active steps to remove it. I don't know if this is even possible after the leaf has been cured. The reason Swedish snus has lower levels of nitrosamines is that it is made from Asian tobaccos that have lower levels to begin with and it is NOT fully cured. It would however be pointless making an ejuice from uncured tobacco and it is reasonable to assume no one has wasted their time trying to do so.

    I'm not 'worried' about vaping because I vape unflavoured. What does worry me is ignorance, and the fact that you STILL don't get where nitrosamines come into the tobacco process is more than enough explanation why I keep needing to post to the subject.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    I asked where you drew that conclusion from as I could not see the figure of 17% that you quoted.
    still asking ..
    I didn't see where you had asked me this. I have posted the link before. But I am happy to do it again.

    http://clearstream.flavourart.it/sit...e4/0728-12.pdf It's in column 1 of the chart at the head of page 15.

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    it was in the other thread when the study was brought up.

    ok, the 100% solution caused a 17% drop in cell viability, interesting how the tobacco one has better survivability at high concentrations than the lower ones..

    since they state
    Reduction of cell viability by more than 30% is considered a cytotoxic effect.
    I imagine that these are not a robust cell mixture, wouldn't they be designed to die easily to give you a measurable result. If 1 cigarette caused 94% cell death in the lungs as in their results, smokers would not be living long.

    damn that study is hard to read for me, when they dilute it down, what are they using ?
    I assume the cycle times they mention of 2 seconds aspiration with a 1 second gap ?

    The 100% .. is that 15 puffs like they did for the cigarette ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    it was in the other thread when the study was brought up.

    ok, the 100% solution caused a 17% drop in cell viability, interesting how the tobacco one has better survivability at high concentrations than the lower ones..

    since they state

    I imagine that these are not a robust cell mixture, wouldn't they be designed to die easily to give you a measurable result. If 1 cigarette caused 94% cell death in the lungs as in their results, smokers would not be living long.

    damn that study is hard to read for me, when they dilute it down, what are they using ?
    I assume the cycle times they mention of 2 seconds aspiration with a 1 second gap ?

    The 100% .. is that 15 puffs like they did for the cigarette ?
    Mate, I don't pretend to understand it all. The blurb at the beginning says those sorts of cells are chosen because they are the ones that are usually used for this sort of thing and that they accurately reflect the sensitive cells of the lungs. The 30% number seems to be an arbitrary scientific measure for when a substance is actually called a toxin. I doubt this number is magic in some way and that 29% is perfectly safe and 30% is evil. 17% doesn't look good to me but that's a call we must make for ourselves. And this was on a liquid provided by a responsible company and a liquid that has NO tobacco specific nitrosamines or tobacco in it at all. It isn't hard for me to think that a tobacco based product is going to push towards or past that magic 30%.

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    they say that 30% is cytotoxic .. so at 17% it is NOT cytotoxic.

    for all we know the test is designed to be logarithmic and 17% is damn good. Again .. their conclusions state ..

    Aroma Cigar Passion 3% did not cause cytotoxic effects at all tested concentrations on fibroblasts
    That is the important bit, the rest of the data we do not know enough to draw solid conclusions from and can only make assumptions.

    One of the controls they tested with is Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (SLS) .. it appears deadly in comparison .. 0.08mg/ml for cytotoxic effects.
    now thats in shampoo, toothpaste, soap .. HEAPS of stuff .. we should all be dead.
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