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Thread: Should electronic cigarettes be as freely available as tobacco?

  1. #1
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    Should electronic cigarettes be as freely available as tobacco?

    Jean-François Etter says Yes. Click here to read : http://www.bmj.com/highwire/filestre...f3845.full.pdf

    Simeon Chimpman says No. Click here to read : http://www.bmj.com/highwire/filestre...df/0/bmj.f3840

    Simeon Chimpman is claiming that Big Tobacco will addict children if ecigs aren't regulated as medicines. It simply goes to show that he has absolutely no idea what's going on. By medicalising ecigs, British American Tobacco effectively gain a monopoly over the ecig market, cutting out small businesses that have helped thousands of people regain their health and lives.

    He is essential supporting British American Tobacco. A company he claims to have the most disdain for.

    Idiot.
    Last edited by mavinry4; 26-02-14 at 03:28 PM. Reason: removed unneccesary name calling

  2. #2
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    That's some serious scare mongering in the second article. I wish there was some way to convince the author that we are much more than 'naive optimists'.

    Hang on, his email address is at the bottom of each page. Do I feel an email campaign coming on?
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  3. #3
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    Mr Chapman sounds like so many activists who are stuck in their thinking, or are afraid to take a position that does not maintain their reputation. This SOCIOLOGIST has built his reputation and position by railing against the tobacco industry. It is therefore natural that he will assume that anything containing nicotine should be regulated lest it lead to an increase in smokers. I also noted that the studies he cited are all slanted toward either bashing big tobacco or highlighting the evils of tobacco.

    What he seems to miss are the commonly stated motivations for use, despite mentioning them, he seems to assume that users will always go back to or co-use tobacco. These motivations are (as far as I can tell) in 99% of cases related to ditching the smokes completely.

    There will ALWAYS be the exception that take up any activity because they perceive it as something popular or something that will result in their inclusion in a given subculture. This is the same 1% that will try hardcore drugs "because others are doing it", not much anyone can do about this group.

    Of greater concern should be who will be the registered suppliers should regulation occur AND what form the regulation takes. The down side of regulation will be the predicted spike in pricing (ITS A MEDICINE! ITS VALUABLE! WE CAN CHARGE LIKE A WOUNDED BULL!)

    Personally I think some for of regulation would be a good thing, to my mind it would regulate the following.
    Exact nicotine content (assayed and tested)
    Ingredients used in flavours
    Manufacturing standards (conscientious mod designers and builders will have no issues here, however some juice producers may fall foul of the standards, tough bloody luck for them)
    Supply locations (having flavoured nic juice on the shelf of a supermarket next to the nic mints is a bad idea IMHO)

    Comments?

  4. #4
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    Not only smoking but wind turbines. The guy certainly has a lot to say about everything. Have a look at this. Sound familiar?



    Chapman and others have said that wind turbine syndrome is a result of the nocebo effect, in which merely suggesting that something could be harmful to your health causes it to be so.



    Wind Turbine Syndrome | Expert flushes Chapman’s “Pissed Off” Thesis down the drain
    mavinry4 likes this.
    Because I trust no-one Who tells me FACTS with no proof

  5. #5
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    Even his hypothesis on dual use is not based on real world scientific evidence. Although he cites studies that show "very light smokers" have the same risk as regular smokers, he bases this on a study which assessed "very light smoking" as being less or equal to 4 cigs daily OR (and this is crucial) 4 grams of tobacco.

    Think about how many thin unfiltered rollies you could make with White Ox. 4 g would actually make you 10 or more thin rollies.

    We know that smokers are very skilled at extracting all the nicotine they need from tobacco even if they reduce the strength of smokes or amount of grams of tobacco. Deeper inhales, held longer etc.

    Dual use with e-cigs has not actually been studied, but it is likely that this would much more likely lead to much less smoke inhalation damage. The nicotine needs are largely met by a non-combustible source, and therefore likely would lead to actual benefits in harm reduction compared to light smoking without meeting one's nicotine needs elsewhere.
    mavinry4, pgscott and Genecigs like this.

  6. #6
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    This is just the latest in a series of disturbing public comments and articles lately that seem to imply that e-cigs are the sole domain and product of Big Tobacco, as if the products that Altria and BAT are planning are the only e-cigs that will be available.

    This attitude bothers me not so much because it is misinformed as because it is deliberately misleading. Chapman may be a hysterical puritan, but he is not uneducated. It's impossible that his research would have failed to bring him into contact with vaping culture or exposure to the independent makers of vaping products that have zero ties to Big Tobacco.

    He is right to be dubious about the motives of Big Tobacco in jumping on our bandwagon but - unless eGo, Provari, and every juice maker out there - is secretly owned by a cigarette company, he is pushing a conspiracy that doesn't exist.
    pgscott likes this.

  7. #7
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    I believe that ecigs should have exactly the same availability as tobacco ... to adults, just like tobacco.

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    All you need to know about S1m0n Ch4pm4n by Christopher Snowdon.

    Should electronic cigarettes be as freely available as tobacco cigarettes? No

    Consider that for a moment. Simple Simon thinks it's better to make real cigarettes more available than a non-tobacco, non-combustible product that is around 99 per cent safer
    Genecigs likes this.

  9. #9
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    Simple Simon says ;
    The advent of e-cigarettes provides a perfect pretext to introduce a form of user licence for nicotine products in the same way that access to potent drugs has long required a temporary licence (a prescription) for those who need them. This would balance the right to use e-cigarettes with all the constraints and disincentives that are now, and should be further, applied to cigarettes.
    A prescription to purchase cigarettes? No doctor would ever prescribe tobacco cigarettes. It would essentially be a ban. It's pure prohibitionist talk. This is Newspeak in its most fluent form.
    Genecigs likes this.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mavinry4 View Post
    Simple Simon says ;


    A prescription to purchase cigarettes? No doctor would ever prescribe tobacco cigarettes. It would essentially be a ban. It's pure prohibitionist talk. This is Newspeak in its most fluent form.
    I wish Chapman would try to push for an outright ban on cigarettes. At least then, he might show some slight amount of wherewithal. Like a bully, he likes to rail against an e-cig industry that, outside of the big tobacco products, doesn't have a billion-dollar marketing campaign and has no massive, legally recognised distribution network. And his derision of smokers as weak-willed and ignorant is barely hidden.

    But when it comes to actually taking on the tobacco industry, he is just another toothless tiger, always snarling and posturing but too weak and timid to actually take a bite.

 

 
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