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  1. #1
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    Campaign to officially recognise our right to import nicotine based ejuice

    I had a fantastic conversation with a staff member at the office of Alan Griffin MP (Member for Bruce) today regarding importing nic juice for our beloved ecigs.

    The problems those of us who have tried to contact organisations and MPs can be cut down to a three core points:

    1. Individuals not groups (and therefore not enough umph behind it).
    2. Mixed messages. Each of us have sent a different letter to different people and it just lets lost in the noise (see point 1).
    3. Too much information. Related to point 2, but each of us have thrown different bits at different people and it can be too much to absorb.

    Basically if an MP or Health Group can fob you off with the easy answer, they will. He also admitted that the TGA is not pro-active at all, they just run off the advice of others. So when we all contacted the TGA they had to come up with a response, and were most likely advised by somebody linked to Big Pharma (sorry, that phrase sounds so conspiractorial but it's best fit for now).

    So what do we do about it? It's actually going to be easier than I initially thought to get something done.

    First, we need to come up with an easy to read, single page letter addressing our concerns. The recommendation was 12 point minimum at 1.5 spacing. IMHO we need to focus on:

    1. The current government stance on e-cig is based on bad science and is just plain wrong.
    2. We aren't pushing to have nic juice legally sold in Australia.
    3. We want the CHEMICAL recognised, not a specific PRODUCT. The worst thing that could possibly happen to vaping in Australia (short of massive taxation) is if one company gets a monopoly on it.
    4. We want to confirm it is a S2 poison (which WE already know it is) and is therefore legal to import for personal use as a treatment for tobacco withdrawal.

    I know ideally it would be better for it to be excluded therefore allowing recreational usage, but if we focus on that tact we are almost certain to lose.

    Second, once we have the letter, we need to SEND it (not email) to the Federal Health Minister, your local MP and your State Health Minister.

    So to summarise, that's the exact same letter, coming from as many people as possible, going to the people who can actually enact change plus our local MP's showing it's a concern for somebody in their electorate.

    Wow that's a lot of text.

  2. #2
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    Step one - The letter.
    I'm happy to draft it and then place it online for suggestions and alterations before we start sending it out.

    Step two - Sending it out.
    Again, I'm happy to handle the actual preparation of letters and posting so we can try and keep the effort co-ordinated. My wife's suggestion was that I collect name and address of those who want to be involved so I can then work out which MP and State Health Minister it needs to go it. All I would ask for in return is about a $5 PayPal donation to cover the costs of materials to do the posting.

    (That's $1.20 per letter - 60c stamp, 60c envelope - about 70c in PayPal fees and another 70c to cover paper and me getting to a mail box

    How does all this sound so far?

  3. #3
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    Sounds good but an S2 rating would still need to be given by the TGA as they are the ones who determine the schedule the states just determine how to apply it.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyPantz View Post
    Sounds good but an S2 rating would still need to be given by the TGA as they are the ones who determine the schedule the states just determine how to apply it.
    Actually they aren't. There is no "complete list" of what is and isn't any particular schedule. Trust me I tried to find it and it doesn't exist That's the problem, it's open to interpretation.

    Check this out. The Poisons Standard is designed to allocate chemicals based on safety and is completely independent from the TGA. Also remember the SUSMP is a "suggestion" for States to make their laws. You don't need to be approved or even listed to fall into a category. It's the State Health authorities that get to make the final call (thus seizures by QH nazis but no-where else).

  5. #5
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    Soundasleep, this sounds like a solid idea.

    I personally am not a "campaigner" or "protester" type.

    But this is passive and easy to do and it is what elected and unelected representatives are there to do.

    Don't forget the unelected reps. It is highly unlikely that this Governement will be returned, so we need to start buttering them up as well.

    Send me an email and I will see what Vapebar can offer to aid this cause.

  6. #6
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    Good point. It might be well worth extending this to the shadow health ministers as well. The only problem with each person added is that cost goes up accordingly. This raises the question of what is the "ceiling" donation. How much becomes too much for people to bother?

    ie you could send it to local MP, local opposition member, state health, state shadow health, federal health and federal shadow health but this results in 6 letters per person. So 6 x $1.20 plus say 5c-10c for ink and paper + PayPal fees = ~$10 per person.

    EDIT: My wife just pointed out that as ex-smokers we used to drop $15-$20 on a pack of ciggies without thinking twice so $10 *should* be OK, but it's a matter of finding the balance of number of people contacted vs what are people willing to donate...
    Last edited by soundasleep; 20-07-11 at 12:47 AM.

  7. #7
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    Well I am happy with $10-$20 if it will make them sit up and take notice but we still really are a minority group so it will take a lot of people to get on board at the outset in order for this to have an impact. Look at how long the Get-Up campaign has been running now and it still only has 228 comments and they have come from several forums both here and abroad.

  8. #8
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    Totally agree with you GP. I'm reading Chris Snowdon's book at the moment about the anti-smoking movement and it's amazing how much change a small group can cause if well organized enough. It's not so much about raw numbers as it is persistence. If the letters keep trickling through at one a week or even a fortnight it brings the issue to light. The other half of this is raising awareness with local MPs so there is some sort of discussion.

    I spent 15 minutes this afternoon talkingto my optometrist about this as an "aisle stand" at the local shoppo was selling the cheap disposable ones! Their very existence is slowly spreading and the question is do we want to be pro-active, or wake up one day to find the Neo-prohibitionists banned them in our sleep?

  9. #9
    Sik
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    What are the implications for locally supplied nic juice if it gets deemed s2 ?
    Current Vape: Variable Wattage mod, EPM Boge tanks, Something Fruity

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    What are the implications for locally supplied nic juice if it gets deemed s2 ?
    The TGA has two classifications - listed and approved. In order to sell nic juice locally a manufacturer would need to submit a specific product for at the very least listing. The costs involved are roughtly $10k and clincal studies need to be supplied to show the safety of the product. These trials must be conducted by an Australian facility so you're looking at another $10-$20k right there (at least). The other catch is that is PER PRODUCT. You can immediately see the problem there for eJuice.

    To get a product "approved" you need to prove efficacy and obviously that involves a LOT more money and wouldn't be possible with the current state of ecig studies. Still pisses me off that homeopathy gets a pass yet we're having to jump through all these g-d damn hoops. Of course, the previous is essentially just water so I understand the rational.

    *IF* somebody went to all that trouble and expensive, it would then be able to be sold only at pharmacies but no prescription would be required.

    To be able to supply nic juice locally without stupid amounts of money being thrown at it we would need to get an exemption in the same way that tobacco products currently have. One step at a time

    EDIT: Here is an example of a listed product - Vicks Inhaler or Nicobate Lozenge

    With both Nicobate Gum and Lozenges each flavour and nicotine strength has a seperate listing. What is more interesting is that these products are as "deadly" as ejuice yet under the "Warnings" section it says "No Warnings included on Record".
    Last edited by soundasleep; 20-07-11 at 01:54 AM.

 

 
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