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  1. #1
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    ATACA - Australian Tobacco Alternatives Consumer Association

    Firstly, if you haven't become a member yet, what are you waiting for? You don't need to *do* anything, and it won't cost you a cent, but there is a saying in politics "the only power is in numbers" - and we need the numbers!

    Secondly, I have sent out the first correspondence to the Scheduling Secretariat under the ATACA name. Below is a copy of the email I have sent:

    Good evening,

    I am writing to ask a question regarding the recent change to the Poisons Standard. Under Schedule 4 - Nicotine, the following line has been added:

    NICOTINE in preparations for human therapeutic use except:
    (b) for use as an aid in withdrawal from tobacco smoking in chewing gum, lozenges, or preparations for sublingual, transdermal or oromucosal spray use

    As you may have already guessed, my question relates to electronic cigarette "eJuice" with nicotine, and to clarify (again) I am asking in reference to those using said products to get off cigarettes, NOT for recreational usage.

    1. Research has shown that the vast majority of nicotine from an electronic cigarette is absorbed by the oromucosal membrane.

    2. Definition of "spray": "a jet of fine particles of liquid, as medicine, insecticide, paint, perfume, etc., discharged from an atomizer or other device for direct application to a surface." - in this case the surface is the mouth.

    3. Electronic cigarettes use an atomizer to turn the original liquid into a mist/aerosol (Source: Health NZ: "Using micro-electronics it vaporizes, separately for each puff, very small quantities of nicotine dissolved in propylene glycol, two small well-known molecules with excellent safety profiles, – into a fine aerosol.")

    4. Definition or "aerosol": "A gaseous suspension of fine solid or liquid particles."

    By the above definitions, eJuice with nicotine for withdrawal from tobacco smoking would fall under the classification of an "oromucosal spray". This would be the case as the "spray" is caused by reverse pressure (sucking) on the e-cig mouthpiece. Pressurisation does not appear to be a requirement of the definition "spray".

    Could you please clarify the above statements for us (again, for aid in withdrawal from tobacco smoking, NOT for recreational usage).

    --

    Regards,
    Sana Nolan
    Public Relations
    ATACA - Australian Tobacco Alternatives Consumer Association
    http://ataca.org.au

  2. #2
    Sik
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundasleep View Post
    Firstly, if you haven't become a member yet, what are you waiting for? You don't need to *do* anything, and it won't cost you a cent, but there is a saying in politics "the only power is in numbers" - and we need the numbers!
    http://ataca.org.au
    QFT, bumping for victory !
    Current Vape: Variable Wattage mod, EPM Boge tanks, Something Fruity

  3. #3
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    Received this today from Prof Hall:

    You will be very interested to learn that the Commonwealth has recently called for tenders* on the following topic:
    *
    RFQ No. 017/1112
    Request for Quotation for the Provision of a Regulatory Impact Statement on the
    options for further regulation of electronic nicotine delivery systems and smokeless
    tobacco products

    I'm waiting to hear back about where I can find more about this as Google has been useless

  4. #4
    nev
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    Thanks all good with the login now

  5. #5
    Sik
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    i dont like the sound of "further regulation", smells like tax or some shit
    Current Vape: Variable Wattage mod, EPM Boge tanks, Something Fruity

  6. #6
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    Added a page giving a scientific deconstruction of the "official government stance" on eletronic cigarettes.

    I have also sent the following email to the TGA:

    Good evening,

    I have a few questions relating to the recent changes to the Commonwealth Poison Standard:

    Under the Schedule 4 listing for nicotine, the following line was added:

    (b) for use as an aid in withdrawal from tobacco smoking in chewing gum,
    lozenges, or preparations for sublingual, transdermal or oromucosal spray
    use.

    Since the Schedule 4 entry says "NICOTINE in preparations for human therapeutic use except" this would seem to me that a "preparation for sublingual, transdermal or ocomucosal spray" no long needs to be a "therapeutic good" as long as it is still "an aid in withdrawal from tobacco smoking". I understand this is a minor, technical distinction, but I wanted to clarify this point.

    My next question is in relation to "oromucosal spray". This would be a product like Nicorette Nasal Spray? I understand that this product is not currently available in Australia, but would be legal to import under the Personal Importation Scheme (please correct me here if I am wrong).

    Does the recent scheduling change mean these products may soon be available for local retail sale, since they are now exemp from scheduling?

    The ingrediant list for nicotine nasal spray is:

    nicotine, propylene glycol, anhydrous ethanol, trometamol, poloxamer 407, glycerol, sodium hydrogen carbonate, levomenthol, mint flavour, cooling flavour, sucralose, acesulflame potassium, hydrochloric acid, purified water.

    Another product used by many around the world to quit smoking contains just three of these same chemicals: nicotine, propylene glycol and flavor. Since this other product is chemically identical to the Nicorette Spray (less chemicals), would it also be covered by the recent scheduling change?

    I look forward to your response.

    EDIT: I know the second last paragraph is a bit clunky, but I hit sent before I noticed it

  7. #7
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    OK peeps, I need some feedback.

    ATACA-Logo-Draft-Concept.jpg

    It's only an extremely rough draft based around what I had in my head, and some concept artwork that was provided to me free from a graphics designer. Should be pretty clear who did which part ;p

    It's been proposed that ATACA allow for "associated vendors" or "member vendors". Similar to ECITA in the UK (but obviously much less legal stuff since we can't sell nic here) the idea is to have a set of "standards" that recognised Aussie vendors need to adhere to. So basically a bit of self regulation in the industry. Some ideas thrown around so far are:

    1. Minimum product standards (no crappy disposables unless clearly marked as a novelty item)
    2. Realistic pricing (to keep away the sharks who go on Group Buy deals with $79 disposable kits)
    3. Transparent complants process - if a customer gets SERIOUSLY pissed with a vendor, ATACA's board (once we have one) can step in as a mediator.
    4. Safety information on flavors (full ingrediant lists on request, not sure about the practicalities of this, but still...)
    5. Ensuring known problem containments are not present (ie no Diacetyl)
    6. Again, not sure how practical, but maybe having juices tested on a semi-regular basis to prove no containation?
    7. Batch numbers on all consumables so if a problem is found, recalling is an easy process.
    8. CHILD SAFE CONTAINERS AND WARNING LABELS!!!
    9. Accurate information on websites (no comments like "it's just water vapor", while "water-based vapor" would be acceptable)
    10. NO COMMENTS ABOUT CESSATION - this keeps the TGA off our backs as we aren't claiming to be a therapeutic product ie you could say something like "a pleasant, safer alternative to smoking" but can't say "this product can help you quit" or claim to be totally safe.

    OK, I've been ranting all evening, so enough from me. What do people think?

  8. #8
    AVF Regular
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    SAS the Website is freaking AWSOME!
    exciting actually.
    I cant think of anything to add right now, but its late and Im sleepy, if I can think of something will post
    ..pretty much perfect I think-

    Well done you!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundasleep View Post
    OK peeps, I need some feedback.

    ATACA-Logo-Draft-Concept.jpg

    It's only an extremely rough draft based around what I had in my head, and some concept artwork that was provided to me free from a graphics designer. Should be pretty clear who did which part ;p

    It's been proposed that ATACA allow for "associated vendors" or "member vendors". Similar to ECITA in the UK (but obviously much less legal stuff since we can't sell nic here) the idea is to have a set of "standards" that recognised Aussie vendors need to adhere to. So basically a bit of self regulation in the industry. Some ideas thrown around so far are:

    1. Minimum product standards (no crappy disposables unless clearly marked as a novelty item)
    2. Realistic pricing (to keep away the sharks who go on Group Buy deals with $79 disposable kits)
    3. Transparent complants process - if a customer gets SERIOUSLY pissed with a vendor, ATACA's board (once we have one) can step in as a mediator.
    4. Safety information on flavors (full ingrediant lists on request, not sure about the practicalities of this, but still...)
    5. Ensuring known problem containments are not present (ie no Diacetyl)
    6. Again, not sure how practical, but maybe having juices tested on a semi-regular basis to prove no containation?
    7. Batch numbers on all consumables so if a problem is found, recalling is an easy process.
    8. CHILD SAFE CONTAINERS AND WARNING LABELS!!!
    9. Accurate information on websites (no comments like "it's just water vapor", while "water-based vapor" would be acceptable)
    10. NO COMMENTS ABOUT CESSATION - this keeps the TGA off our backs as we aren't claiming to be a therapeutic product ie you could say something like "a pleasant, safer alternative to smoking" but can't say "this product can help you quit" or claim to be totally safe.

    OK, I've been ranting all evening, so enough from me. What do people think?
    So pretty much ECF rules?

    Apart from testing and contamination.....
    Last edited by Hack; 15-12-11 at 03:51 AM. Reason: .


    Buy genuine e-cigarette gear - Check out www.vapebar.com.au

  10. #10
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    Haha...never looked at the ECF vendor rules, so how about that.

    I realize testing is probably outside the realistic capabilities (not to mention the cost involved) of current vendors, and since we can't sell nic, probably not needed. I included it more to get feedback.

    The fact is any sort of government interaction requires time and money. Both can be donated, but if we realistically expect to keep e-cigs legal in Australa we need the vendors on board to show we are capable of self regulation.

 

 
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