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Thread: Vendor accounts posting

  1. #1
    AussieVapers approved Vendor
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    Vendor accounts posting

    Truthfully, I'm half having a laugh asking this here because of the way the forum has been of late, but also because I don't know where else to put it.

    I've been holding back on including my opinion and knowledge to this forum because my signature and name carries my business name and links. I'm not sure if this is acceptable to the community or if it would be a preference that I start another anonymous account that doesn't include them.

    I'm very passionate about vaping and I also feel I have some knowledge to share.

    So, should I have another account that doesn't link to my store? Or should I just contribute as I see fit?

    Have at it...
    Quom, Feral and spud like this.

  2. #2
    Noe
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    As long as you are posting for the benefit of vapers in the community & not for the benefit of financial gain, I don't see a problem with you posting under this account.
    However, I know some newer members here will have a problem with it, just because they do not understand the way this forum's etiquette has always been in such matters & can't see the distinctions between helping & advertising.
    gregds, Quom, lozza 82 and 5 others like this.
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  3. #3
    AussieVapers approved Vendor
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    I can certainly understand their concerns and that's what makes it tough.

    We have 2 B&Ms in Europe and I've visited almost every big name vendor you can think of in China (and more no names than I'd like to admit), as well as many in Europe. I'm not here here to ill advise anyone, in fact, quite the opposite. I'd create another account immediately, but then I'd be 'caught out' at a pick up or vape meet...
    Last edited by Tom@JuiceFactory; 28-09-13 at 06:14 AM.

  4. #4
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    You can always sign up as just "Tom", and give your opinion as a consumer advocate.

    I think consumer advocates mainly care about product availability and product safety.

    Your company sells a lot of DIY stuff. DIY products usually go hand in hand with product availability, so I can't see how your input is not going to be welcomed here on AVF anyway. DIY product use however does not always go hand in hand with the safety aspect of vaping, so you might come into conflict with those who are concerned about that.

    I myself am for restrictions on DIY nicotine, but as a consumer advocate, I totally stand up for DIY product availability. I believe 100mg/mL should be the highest concentration allowed to be sold, and I think a one time low cost consumer licence of some sort for these concentrations is needed to deter those who aren't serious about DIY vaping. I think also that those who sell DIY nicotine should need a licence to do so, separate to a licence to sell flavoured premixed eliquids. But any company can have both licences. Part of that licencing agreement with the Australian government would be that a DIY nicotine seller would not sell any batch of nicotine that has not been certified by a third party, and testing reports be placed up on the website as a PDF file just as Box Elder does.

    I look forward to your consumer advocate's opinion on that.

  5. #5
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    I'd say just use this account and contribute. When I first came here some vendors were quite active in discussion topics, not so much anymore which is sad.

    Some people will probably have an issue with it, as Noe said. Other members have their site/store/logo in their signature. You should be fine, not many people should logically have a problem with that. Doesn't mean some won't.
    Que sera.
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  6. #6
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    personally i don't and never have had an issue with venders posting in open forums to help others or to ask questions. they are peeps just like every one else.

    having said that though there are "certain" postings that I find irritating. example would be digging up old dead threads for items that are exclusive to your shop alone just to ask "how you are liking it". self serving and completely dollar driven. the forum has a place for venders to post their shop related products. has a tendency to mark in my mind to never buy from them.

    have ordered from both tom and noe and would have no problems doing so again when needed
    Last edited by Feral; 28-09-13 at 06:54 AM.

  7. #7
    Noe
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    Quote Originally Posted by mavinry4 View Post
    You can always sign up as just "Tom", and give your opinion as a consumer advocate.

    I think consumer advocates mainly care about product availability and product safety.

    Your company sells a lot of DIY stuff. DIY products usually go hand in hand with product availability, so I can't see how your input is not going to be welcomed here on AVF anyway. DIY product use however does not always go hand in hand with the safety aspect of vaping, so you might come into conflict with those who are concerned about that.

    I myself am for restrictions on DIY nicotine, but as a consumer advocate, I totally stand up for DIY product availability. I believe 100mg/mL should be the highest concentration allowed to be sold, and I think a one time low cost consumer licence of some sort for these concentrations is needed to deter those who aren't serious about DIY vaping. I think also that those who sell DIY nicotine should need a licence to do so, separate to a licence to sell flavoured premixed eliquids. But any company can have both licences. Part of that licencing agreement with the Australian government would be that a DIY nicotine seller would not sell any batch of nicotine that has not been certified by a third party, and testing reports be placed up on the website as a PDF file just as Box Elder does.

    I look forward to your consumer advocate's opinion on that.
    So in line with your "vision" of licensing, what concentration should vendors be allowed to import for breaking down into these upper level "lower" concentrations?
    Officially #1 Customer and Supporter of Essiemessy's Custom made Glass Drip Tips!
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    The Dahli Lama once said, "People do not laugh enough & take life too seriously, causing stress." A good laugh can cure a build up of stress, stress is a leading cause of grey hair & early death.

    Vape Hard or go home and Vape Hard!

    I'd rather be sneezing than wheezing!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noe View Post
    So in line with your "vision" of licensing, what concentration should vendors be allowed to import for breaking down into these upper level "lower" concentrations?
    Interesting question.

    Maybe a third licencing scheme, because the transport of nicotine liquids above 100mg/mL begin to pose safety risks in transport.

    But if they mix 100mg/mL down to other concentrations, those new mixes would then have to be tested, documented per batch and recorded.

    I just imagined that future Australian DIY nicotine sellers would purchase gallons of nicotine from places like RTS, and sell them in smaller bottles, i.e no mixing or diluting done here in Australia. That way they don't have to pay for testing each batch they make or even have to worry about the batch documentation except to display it. It would have all been covered by the overseas supplier.
    Last edited by mavinry4; 28-09-13 at 07:18 AM.
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  9. #9
    Noe
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    Quote Originally Posted by mavinry4 View Post
    Interesting question.

    Maybe a third licencing scheme, because the transport of nicotine liquids above 100mg/mL begin to pose safety risks in transport.

    But if they mix 100mg/mL down to other concentrations, those new mixes would then have to be tested, documented per batch and recorded.

    I just imagined that future Australian DIY nicotine sellers would purchase gallons of nicotine from places like RTS, and sell them in smaller bottles. That way they don't have to pay for testing each batch they make or even have to worry about the batch documentation except to display it. It would have all been covered by the overseas supplier.
    Ok let's complicate this a little for you then.

    Vendor A, has order B & has no other orders for juice but has only 100mg/ml available to mix the order with.
    Now the order is for 2x 30ml bottles one at 12mg/ml & the other at 18mg/ml, both in different flavors.
    Does this mean that the vendor now has to mix a complete batch for each flavor at each given strength, then spend 100's or 1000's of dollars to get those batches tested?
    Because testing is not cheap by a professional testing facility & will cost somewhere in the range of $500 to $600 in my estimation for each batch tested.
    Now imagine a vendor has 20 different flavors on offer in 6mg/ml, 12mg/ml, 18mg/ml, 24mg/ml, & 36mg/ml, that is 20 X 5 X $500 = $50 000 just to put product on the shelves, which may or may not be sold in a reasonable amount of time before expiry.

    Now in order for that cost to be workable for the vendor, they would need to be mixing batches somewhere in the range of 5 Liters per flavor, per strength, that would work out to a cost of $3 per 30ml bottle, which of course would be passed onto the consumer.
    Let's not delude ourselves here, mixing any batch less than that is going to cost more per bottle at the consumer end.

    So back to the original question, is vendor A going to want to mix up 2 bottles & pay $1000 for the privilege, just to have 5 liters sitting around of each, which in all likelihood is not going to sell quickly enough to turn over before it expires?
    I don't think so. I can't see many vendors offering wide ranges of juices if this takes place, juices which are the least popular will disappear, vapers that only vape the least popular flavors(ie niche market) will be forced to DiY or to buy overseas product.
    Vendors, even established vendors simply do not have $50k to invest that is essentially "dead" money(eg. they have no product to show for it). So the range of flavors is likely to be reduced from what we see now, substantially to provide differing strengths. Expect to see for example VK Supreme in 5 strengths & VK Royal in 5 strengths & no other choices of flavors, except perhaps as doublers.

    Also back to the original question, is the customer going to be happy to wait the week or so, for testing to be done & the vendor to be allowed to sell the juice or are they going to be pissed off at having to wait an extra week on top of shipping & packing times they already experience now?
    Last edited by Noe; 28-09-13 at 07:42 AM.
    Officially #1 Customer and Supporter of Essiemessy's Custom made Glass Drip Tips!
    Essie's Glass DTs

    Sent from my kickass gaming PC using keyboard & fingers.

    The Dahli Lama once said, "People do not laugh enough & take life too seriously, causing stress." A good laugh can cure a build up of stress, stress is a leading cause of grey hair & early death.

    Vape Hard or go home and Vape Hard!

    I'd rather be sneezing than wheezing!

  10. #10
    AussieVapers approved Vendor
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    I’m more than happy to sign up as Tom and remove all links etc., but I know that people will still know that I am from Juice Factory and I hate to think that my opinion is interpreted as someone who is trying to profit from this community rather than someone who is trying to contribute to it. I suppose I have no other option…

    We are very DIY orientated at the moment, and that’s the way we intended to stay, but feedback is telling us that we need to start stocking consumables at the very minimum (thanks Aus post! – well, being fair, their cost of covering imports is insane). We will never have the glorious postage prices of the US or UK.

    Safety is our utmost concern. There is nothing that takes priority over this as a vendor or a member of this community. And herein lies the problem, who trusts a vendor? We do this for a living right?

    As for <del>restrictions</del> regulations, I’m a fan. But this raises a lot of points. Most of these companies that we get concentrates from have traditionally been lolly and other food flavour manufacturers. Vaping has seen the popular manufacturers expand beyond their wildest imagination, which is good because they have started to tailor many of the ingredients towards vapers and remove what we now know to be hazardous to our health. But does this mean we are going to start controlling flavour manufacturers differently because vapers have found that they can use it in their juices? Doesn’t that sound crazy?

    As for nic regulation, well, that’s a different story, of course financially every vendor wishes it was locked off to them or to all of us. Simply put, this isn’t the solution, not to mention BT and BP would just take the reins and do as they seemed fit.

    I’m honestly afraid of some of the nic that comes over here, there should be testing, certification and batch numbering alongside inexpensive Australian testing. Remember all these costs must be passed on. Allowing this to happen and reach a much bigger audience, would most certainty help.

    My background on vaping is in Italy. Over there it is required that ingredients be listed in addition to other information such as manufacture location, contact details, nicotine levels, age restrictions etc. And at the minimum they meet the UKs CHIP label requirements and random testing too.

    We need a solution that allows a competitive market without restricting innovation. We need to know what is in our nic, and at what percentages, hell, even I want to know EXACTLY what is in my nic, who doesn’t right? But without using it as an excuse to make up for tobacco taxes, or push the small guy out. All this needs to be done at a local (country) level.

    There should be no monopoly on nicotine nor the components that allow us to consume it, but we do need regulation, we need the general public to know that they are receiving what they pay for, just like they do with almost all other industries. This does not translate into allowing overseas tests or vendor only distribution and particularly doesn’t translate into the government passing it to BT and BP because they have money.

    Let's not forget about the greater good here. We have a real chance to minimise one of the worlds leading causes of preventable death.

    </rant>
    Last edited by Tom@JuiceFactory; 28-09-13 at 08:04 AM.
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