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Thread: Where there is smoke ...

  1. #1
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    Where there is smoke ...

    400 Tobacco Control troughers gather to find the magical ingredient that will make their beloved NRT's work .....


    New Zealand scientists have unearthed what may be a main reason nicotine replacement therapy is not a failsafe cure for tobacco addiction.

    The standard view is that nicotine is the chemical that hooks people into smoking tobacco, and that it is the smoke itself, with its multitude of dangerous chemicals, that harms and kills smokers.

    But because of the limited success of nicotine replacement therapy - quit-smoking rates of 20 per cent or less at one year - many researchers have been pondering whether there may be a second addictive component in the smoke, in addition to nicotine.
    Where there is smoke ... - Health - NZ Herald News

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    Tobacco Control looking for NRT excuses.



    It seems the Tobacco Control Industry may be hitting on an excuse for the immense failure rate of Big Pharmas standard nicotine replacement therapies. Check this out from New Zealand:


    New Zealand scientists have unearthed what may be a main reason nicotine replacement therapy is not a failsafe cure for tobacco addiction.

    The standard view is that nicotine is the chemical that hooks people into smoking tobacco, [...]

    But because of the limited success of nicotine replacement therapy - quit-smoking rates of 20 per cent or less at one year - many researchers have been pondering whether there may be a second addictive component in the smoke, in addition to nicotine.

    Pharma NRT does not work because it is bollocks. A smoker likes to feel the hit of the smoke as it goes down. That's why patches and gums have such a low success rate, they don't provide that. Ecigs on the other hand, do, and that's why they have become so widely popular and have helped so many people quit smoking tobacco.
    It's all bollocks!: Tobacco Control looking for NRT excuses.

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    "The main conclusions from this study," the researchers write, "were that non-nicotinic components have a role in tobacco dependence, and that some tobacco products could have higher abuse liability, irrespective of nicotine levels."

    Dr Truman said the research had produced strong results using the gold standard method for testing addictiveness.

    "That is a formal proof that some tobacco substances are more addictive than nicotine is."

    She said it was not yet clear what substance was behind the greater addictiveness of the dissolved rollie smoke over the nicotine solution.

    "That's the million-dollar question ... We are following up a lead."
    Where there is smoke ...

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    But because of the limited success of nicotine replacement therapy - quit-smoking rates of 20 per cent or less at one year - many researchers have been pondering whether there may be a second addictive component in the smoke, in addition to nicotine.
    The secret ingredient is pleasure. Something medical scientists are guaranteed not to discover.

    This kind of thing reminds us that idiocy is not confined to individuals but may engulf whole whole communities.
    BlackDog, spud and mswallis like this.

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    Oh dear, the elusive search for the "unknown other addictive substance", gonna need a whole lot of grant money to find this baddie. Might take the heat out of the "all nicotine users are junkies" and should "quit or die" argument. Its interesting how the whole issue of smoking is so focused on the chemical make up, and has failed to look at the psychological factors in any depth. Much easier to deal with banning chemicals, than to deal with the psychological reasons people smoke.

    Pharma NRTs don't work because they are seen as medicines, not as something enjoyable, they taste vile, or have no taste at all (patches), they cannot be individualised for the user, they are a public and private admittance that a person is an addict. which has huge psychological issues, such as smokers feeling like they are bad people, scum, shameful, dirty, weak, criminal etc, all the negative connotations that the word addict has deliberately been given, by those seeking to control the lives of others. There is also the issue of smoking being a rebellion against the increased control of government over the private lives of citizens, smoking is one of the last vestiges of rebellion left in many western countries, without becoming a criminal, and even this criminalisation of smoking is happening right now. Better to feel like rebel scum, than just scum. (It is the rebellion aspect that appeals most to teenagers, and the tobacco control and public health policies are feeding this, not removing it).

    Public health officials and tobacco control zealots simply ignore the fact that some people, myself included, actually enjoy nicotine. That smokers want to get rid of the tobacco as the delivery method, not give up the chemical they enjoy consuming. They have worked so hard to associate nicotine with every bad thing, that they have blinded themselves to the very real fact that people like me will jump at the chance to enjoy the substance without the tobacco, using a device that also sates the enjoyment of the rituals of smoking. They pay lip service to things like the hand to mouth actions, but fail utterly to recognise things such as the relaxation from taking time out, the enjoyment of a shared ritual with friends, the use as a distraction, or circuit breaker in stressful situations, etc.

    This is why e-cigs work, because they are primarily a nicotine delivery system that is ENJOYABLE to use, has a lot of interesting hardware, which is able to be individualised to suit the personality and desires of the user, and this customisation also applies to the e liquid, both in nicotine content, and flavours. Vaping is enjoyable, its interesting, and sates all the psychological aspects that smokers desire. They need to be seen in the full context of all these factors, not just as a cessation device. If this is what they were to become, they would become as useless as NRTs are now.
    All opinions expressed by me, are my own, I do not represent, or speak for, anyone but myself.






    STOPPED SMOKING 11/08/13 STARTED VAPING 11/08/13

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    There is also the possibility that the elusive thing is simply the primal mammalian sucking=soothing=safety thing. As big grown up adults we can hardly bear to consider that correlation.

    Quote Originally Posted by spud View Post
    Public health officials and tobacco control zealots simply ignore the fact that some people, myself included, actually enjoy nicotine.
    I'm curious about this spud? I've heard it stated many times on the forum, but personally I'm not sure exactly what it is about nicotine that is enjoyable. Maybe I've been using too long, but I can't identify anything I can attribute to nicotine? When I drink alcohol it makes me feel giddy and relaxed, and I enjoy that feeling. But I can't really identify any effects of nicotine ingestion that I can say are enjoyable?

    I enjoy the relief I feel when there is a need for it that is satisfied in the form of an ecig or cigarette...but it's not really an effect of nicotine, it's more the relief of replenishing depleting nicotine levels.

    For me it's the act of vaping/smoking that is enjoyable, rather than the effect, if there even is an effect apart from relief?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenJ View Post
    There is also the possibility that the elusive thing is simply the primal mammalian sucking=soothing=safety thing. As big grown up adults we can hardly bear to consider that correlation.



    I'm curious about this spud? I've heard it stated many times on the forum, but personally I'm not sure exactly what it is about nicotine that is enjoyable. Maybe I've been using too long, but I can't identify anything I can attribute to nicotine? When I drink alcohol it makes me feel giddy and relaxed, and I enjoy that feeling. But I can't really identify any effects of nicotine ingestion that I can say are enjoyable?

    I enjoy the relief I feel when there is a need for it that is satisfied in the form of an ecig or cigarette...but it's not really an effect of nicotine, it's more the relief of replenishing depleting nicotine levels.

    For me it's the act of vaping/smoking that is enjoyable, rather than the effect, if there even is an effect apart from relief?
    For me, nicotine is enjoyable because I like how it makes me feel. It helps me relax, and it helps calm and focus my thoughts. I often have times where I get to the end of the day utterly mentally exhausted, but my mind will not stop. I have never been able to switch off the thinking without resorting to chemical help. Sedatives work, but they also dull my thinking at times when I do not want it dulled, the effect is too strong, and sedatives put me to sleep which is not what I want, I want to be able to think, but at a slower rate, and in a more focused way. (This is really hard to explain, but I expect other people with Aspergers will know exactly what I'm trying to say).

    Nicotine absolutely does the job, I find that my thoughts are focused, without being restricted or dulled, and nicotine has the effect of physically relaxing me without putting me to sleep.

    One of the hardest things for me to do is actually relax, and vaping, (as with smoking), forces me to take time to perform the act of vaping, (as with smoking), and in this way is a circuit breaker for times when without nicotine, I would simply keep going until I dropped. I seem to lack the something that lets people know when to take a break. I also used smoking, and now use vaping as a circuit breaker for times when I am overwhelmed with stimulation from outside, it stops the loop that some people on the Autistic Spectrum can get into when there is too much stimulation. As a child I would use repetitive actions like rocking or tapping, to break the circuit, but as an adult these actions are inappropriate, particularly in public. This is what I mean when I speak about using smoking to self medicate, which I now do with vaping rather than smoking.

    I like the benefits of nicotine, and I like the way it makes me feel, and this is why I find it enjoyable.

    Hope this is a clear explanation, its not something I've really tried to explain before, accept to myself
    BlackDog, avtek, AstroBoy and 1 others like this.
    All opinions expressed by me, are my own, I do not represent, or speak for, anyone but myself.






    STOPPED SMOKING 11/08/13 STARTED VAPING 11/08/13

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    Quote Originally Posted by JenJ View Post
    There is also the possibility that the elusive thing is simply the primal mammalian sucking=soothing=safety thing. As big grown up adults we can hardly bear to consider that correlation.



    I'm curious about this spud? I've heard it stated many times on the forum, but personally I'm not sure exactly what it is about nicotine that is enjoyable. Maybe I've been using too long, but I can't identify anything I can attribute to nicotine? When I drink alcohol it makes me feel giddy and relaxed, and I enjoy that feeling. But I can't really identify any effects of nicotine ingestion that I can say are enjoyable?

    I enjoy the relief I feel when there is a need for it that is satisfied in the form of an ecig or cigarette...but it's not really an effect of nicotine, it's more the relief of replenishing depleting nicotine levels.

    For me it's the act of vaping/smoking that is enjoyable, rather than the effect, if there even is an effect apart from relief?
    I wasn't really aware of the effects of nic until I started vaping and messing around with different nic strengths, but now I notice a pleasant effect of, I suppose "well-being", not quite stimulant, not quite a calmative, but having some properties of both. Hard to describe, it's quite mild, but now that it's apart from the rest of the crap in combusted baccy I can isolate and identify the effect. Of course I'm still on 20mg/ml and chuffing most of the day Not all that different from caffeine; it is a bit of a stimulant, but also calms me (keep the PINEAPPLE outta my face until i've had the second cup of the day!)

    That may change as I reduce the nic strength, and vape less during the day, I'd say then it will be less obvious, and will just stabilise me and eliminate the cravings.

    There may well be other addictive substances in tobacco that you don't get in vaping. In the first baccy-free day or two of my vaping journey I wasn't stressed and craving at all, but there was a little something missing, like an itch that you can't quite pinpoint and scratch. It certainly wasnt anything I worried about, it was so insignificant, but it was there, only in the first day or so. Vaping really does satisfy all the triggers I can think of, and smells a heck of a lot better!
    Like Spud says, patches don't work, partly because of the stigma. They're "patches". Band-aid solutions. Seen as a cop-out. Not social, not enjoyable. As our own beloved Chimpy says, we don't form Patch Clubs! When I was using them I considered rolling them up and smoking them, useless bloody things. And there's so much more to the addiction than the chemicals, it's the ritual, the social cues, everything. If you speak to an ex-heroin user, they'll probably tell you even though they've been off the junk for years, they don't think much about it anymore, but they still dream of the ritual of mixing up in a spoon. Physical addiction can be chemically managed. Psychological addiction is much harder to break.
    spud and vaping_gal like this.



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  9. #9
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    I definitely enjoy the mild stimulant-relaxant effects of nicotine. Especially in conjunction with alcohol or caffeine. In the morning, like right now, as I'm waking up, with a coffee in one hand and my vape in the other, I can literally feel the fog of sleep lift off as the caffeine and nicotine start absorbing into my brain. During the day, when I need to concentrate, I get a little extra oomph from vaping, and if I have finished something, a vape is a great little reward for something accomplished and a means to ensure I take a short break before moving on to the next thing.

    The after dinner vape might well be my favourite, with a glass of wine. At the end of the day, it helps me to relax and unwind and get in the zone for sleeping. Like many, I've had to tailor my mg of nicotine to the time of day too. I've become more and more sensitive to nicotine, and if I don't vape something with a reduced nicotine level in the evening (we're talking 5mg/mL during the day now, and 2-3mg/mL in the evening) I definitely end up over stimulated and lieing in bed wide awake with a rapid heartrate. Probably that's the one way I can be sure how great nicotine is, and what role it has in my life, is that such small amounts can have such an impact on my ability to get to sleep. I can drink coffee right up until bedtime without it having an impact on my sleep, but have to halve the nicotine after dinner.
    spud and vaping_gal like this.

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    Correct me if I'm wrong,... but

    Does this mean they are conceding that vaping is not a a gateway to tobacco smoking, since ejuice lacks this mystery addictive chemical?
    Olfella, spud and vaping_gal like this.

 

 
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