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Thread: I think Alegria should be let back onto AVF

  1. #1
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    I think Alegria should be let back onto AVF

    Ok, before you shoot at me, I do have a condition, and want you all to consider something. This is a follow up from what Jessamine posted in the other thread about Vendors forming a trade association.

    I came across this post by SAS ; ECCA UK warns who is trying to get ecigs banned, and why.

    During the time that SAS was most active with ATACA, he was in communication the consumer advocate overseas. This is something that I recommend be continued with the new consumer advocates group that is emerging. We need to be communicating with CASAA and ECCA regularly, especially when it comes to learning how to deal with trade associations. We need to be watching them closely, especially how they aggregate lists of state and federal MPs and design template letters to send to them.

    An important quote from SAS's post was ;

    It seems that unless the community and trade stand together against the power of the pharmaceutical industry then the prospects are not good. It looks as if countries where pharma makes a lot of money and where there was no combined community / trade defence against their attack have already gone down. Bans are in place that will be very hard to overturn.
    Make no mistake about it. The most dangerous threat to vaping in Australia are the Pharmaceutical NRT companies. They spend millions of dollars using mainstream media to push a narrative that persuades smokers to stay away from electronic cigarettes. The pay so called "experts" millions of dollars to spread false information, and they shamelessly use front groups such as Cancer foundations, Government Quitlines and NGOs to launder this false information and perpetuate the narrative. They create echo chambers within elitist liberal academic circles, and continue to manufacture uncertainties about e-cigs where there is none. You only have to see how the recent study that showed that ecigs are not a gateway to smoking was not covered at all by the mainstream media, whilst the CDC study that wrongly concluded that vaping was a gateway hit every news channel and newspaper around the country.


    Now I understand the anger towards Alegria. What he did recently was spiteful. He's a prick for doing what he did. Personally, I think the new consumer advocate group can benefit from this incident greatly. It taught those organising it that it's not a nice and fair world out there. What Alegria did is nothing compared to the type of campaign that will be put against us when we actually begin to establish ourselves as an authoritative voice on e-cig regulation policy.

    There are going to be groups of vendors advocating the banning of DIY nicotine. There are going to be groups of vendors advocating for all cartridges and tanks (including clearo tanks) to be sealed and non-refillable. There are going to be groups of vendors that advocate medicinal regulation and there will groups of vendors advocating the banning of online sales. And everyone of them are going to do prickful things to further their agenda, but nothing as bad as what Big Pharma are doing right now. Keep in mind that there's probably as much love between you and Alegria & Co. as there is between consumer groups and trade associations overseas.

    I love the suspicion and paranoia being directed at this incident. This is good. It's healthy. It has established the fact that there is a line between us consumer advocates and the vendors that a forming groups with each other. Vendors will be aggressive, especially in marketing, and they will commit devious schemes. You should expect it, and not be emotional when it occurs.

    But as much as you despise Alegria & Co, and much as who want to see them gone, the inconvenient truth is that if you want nicotine liquids legally sold in Australia, then you need businesses like theirs. They are some of the only vendors so far that has vocally spoken out for nicotine liquids to be sold in Australia, because the expansion of their businesses depend on it. Don't hurt yourself just to spite the people that you don't like. Be suspicious of them, continue to despise them. It is healthy to do so. But even enemies can work together to fight something greater.

    I would like to see two new subforums on AVF. One specifically for the Consumer Advocates group discussion (although think the majority of this discussion between committee members to be private from now on), and one sub-forum specifically for debates between Consumer Advocates and the Trade Association.

    My suggestion is to let Alegria back onto AVF, under the condition that he first form an official Trade Association. If this man, and those other vendors who plan to distribute overseas ejuices, or begin to phase out their doubler business into a nicotine liquid business, are serious about getting nicotine liquid sales legalised in Australia, if they are serious about expanding their businesses, then they should prove it. They should form an official Australian e-cig trade association, and approach us as such. No more pretending that you're doing this for "the community". We know how businesses operate. Enough of this game playing, and have the decency to meet us half way. Then and only then, can we begin having a meaningful conversation and negotiate on how we can begin tackling Big Pharma and the Government, and get nicotine liquids sold here.

    The first thing they can do is hand the AVA social media groups over to to the consumers, and form another facebook group for their trade association.

    You want to make money. We want easier access to nicotine ejuice. Let's make this happen.

  2. #2
    Jas
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    Just logging in now and reading the thread title was enough! Ahhh na!
    I am enjoying AVF now and am actually happy to log in like i used to be. Im trying to contribute to threads, have a laugh and not get banned i feel great and feel that this community is coming together now slowly on how it used to be. Hell i havnt even been banned since alegria was vanished, Now that really means something!

    I hope this thread gets closed before another epic marathon starts.
    Well done Mavinry4 you just started another war.
    Last edited by Jas; 01-11-13 at 11:49 AM.
    Noe, ckane, fifthflo and 2 others like this.

  3. #3
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    hi Jas. Havent seen you for a while

  4. #4
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    He's not interested in forming any group. His whole spiel was that Aussies can't make decent juice and it should all be imported from America. He was very clear that his desire is for vendors to be the only people allowed to sell nicotine in Australia (his DIY amount was 48MG IIRC). He didn't want it available to everyone, his hope was to create a monopoly by having importation banned (unless you had a licence), presumably to become a seller to a captive market.

    It's in vapers interests to limit his ability to organise and promote this.
    Noe, GirlyPantz, ckane and 6 others like this.

  5. #5
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    Reminder to all ... this is an opinion piece by Mav , if it degenerates into a witch hunt it WILL be shut down and sanctions handed out .
    We are all allowed opinions here , if you can debate this without forming packs, attacking individuals, and all the other crap that usually surrounds this topic go ahead , if you cant go away .

    Now regarding previous and current Bannings/suspensions... POLITICS is NO excuse for bad behaviour nor should it be used to influence Moderator/Admin actions
    It is my personal opinion that if a ban is handed out it stays ... if a person wants to align themselves with an organisation outside of AVF , that should have no bearing on the behaviour expected when they are here on AVF
    If they choose to aggravate , troll , create/use multiple accounts, then they have to be responsible for doing those things
    unik likes this.
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  6. #6
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    TL, DR ... not a big fan of 'scare mongering' tactics and i don't see how both issues are related ? ... it's a lot more peaceful here recently and i like it ... he spends a lot of time spamming the facebook vapers pages and as for the other alleged incidents ... pineapple that.
    ckane and Jas like this.

  7. #7
    Jas
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    Ive actually been on quite a bit urecia since DM has gone, im actually starting to enjoy logging in to AVF now. T
    hanks for the Hi anywayz urecia hope all is well.

  8. #8
    Jas
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatman View Post
    Reminder to all ... this is an opinion piece by Mav , if it degenerates into a witch hunt it WILL be shut down and sanctions handed out .
    We are all allowed opinions here , if you can debate this without forming packs, attacking individuals, and all the other crap that usually surrounds this topic go ahead , if you cant go away .

    Now regarding previous and current Bannings/suspensions... POLITICS is NO excuse for bad behaviour nor should it be used to influence Moderator/Admin actions
    It is my personal opinion that if a ban is handed out it stays ... if a person wants to align themselves with an organisation outside of AVF , that should have no bearing on the behaviour expected when they are here on AVF
    If they choose to aggravate , troll , create/use multiple accounts, then they have to be responsible for doing those things
    Well Mods better be on patrol for the next 24 hours, coz i believe this thread was started to create problems once again on AVF by alegria.
    its pretty obvious what this threads intentions are FM.
    ckane, Greg, lozza 82 and 2 others like this.

  9. #9
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    Here we go again.

  10. #10
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    It baffles me that human condition that some of our kind experience. The sentiment of dread & miss when turmoil is dormant from our lives. Those who choose to ecite to fill a void of chaos in the world in which they live. When being at peace and in harmonious surroundings scare those who choose or prefer the sentiment of turmoil. Self initiated turbulence.

    Those who don't learn, or can't remember the past are doomed to repeat it.

    Have a wondrous day
    lozza 82, fifthflo and Jas like this.

 

 
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