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Thread: Would you support disclosure of ejuice ingredients?

  1. #1
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    Would you support disclosure of ejuice ingredients?

    I've been thinking about some ways to provide incentive to Aussie vendors to form a trade association that would compliment the consumers association so that we can get a ball rolling on nicotine liquids being sold locally in Australia. Perhaps what's needed is a disincentive to keep overseas ejuices manufacturers out of Australia.

    What if there we as consumers supported a law that made it mandatory for all nicotine ejuice manufacturers to disclose all ingredients of each of their ejucies. Perhaps the ratios of ingredients can be kept trade secret, however, all flavour concentrates, alkaline buffers, sweetners etc would need to be disclosed.

    This might be;

    disclosed on the bottle, or a government website, or only to a Australian Vendor Association member-only viewable document, or possibly only with the Government.

    Either way, I'm certain this could be a major disincentive for many overseas ejuice manufacturers to begin selling on Australian soil. You would still be able to import overseas ejuices, but chances of them being sold locally is low because of the ingredient disclosure law.

    It would allow our current vendors to maintain the majority of the Australian Ecig Market.

    Your thoughts?

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    It's a good thought Mav, but what would it achieve? The bottom line is we would have a list of ingredients that have not been researched for exposure via inhaling to humans.

    Look at diacetyl. The only reason we know it is bad to be inhaling it is because workers were getting sick from working in factories that used it. AKA by accident.

    So there is one nasty we know of. Are there any more? We just don't know. Popcorn flavour is a huge flavour, so there is a lot more of it being used, thereby leading to more exposure to people, and the accidental findings of popcorn lung. It would be naive for us to think that because the same sort of thing hasn't happened with other flavours in other products, that they are safe for us to be inhaling. Until there is research done on it, we simply don't know.

    For the life of me I cannot see why Aussie vendors haven't already got together to try to apply for licenses or changing the regs somewhat, so they could at least bring in nicotine and onsell it in their juices. I wonder if any of them have looked at those sorts of options. But maybe they are selling enough already - because although people get on here and rave about overseas juices, I imagine there are so many more who don't, and who simply put in an order for nic every 3 months and buy doublers from Aussies on a regular basis.

    We really need to be pushing for studies into the effect of flavourings when inhaled, because without that info knowing what is in our juice is kind of redundant. It's like having a bucket full of nothing, IMO.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mavinry4 View Post

    Either way, I'm certain this could be a major disincentive for many overseas ejuice manufacturers to begin selling on Australian soil. You would still be able to import overseas ejuices, but chances of them being sold locally is low because of the ingredient disclosure law.

    It would allow our current vendors to maintain the majority of the Australian Ecig Market.

    Your thoughts?
    Isn't this a bit fascist or something? Why do you want to control the e-juice market, push out overseas products? What on earth for? Competition is healthy isn't it, keeps the standards high, gives the customer some choice? what the.....?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenJ View Post
    Isn't this a bit fascist or something? Why do you want to control the e-juice market, push out overseas products? What on earth for? Competition is healthy isn't it, keeps the standards high, gives the customer some choice? what the.....?

    Overseas companies will still be welcome to join the Australian market, so it's not really fascist. Fascism would be a specific law saying that no overseas producers are allowed.

    Only those excessively aggressive companies will decide to stay out because they'd prefer not to disclose their ejuice ingredients.

    The aim is to get nicotine liquids sold locally. We need a trade association and a consumer association to push for it. If this is what will provide incentive for Aussie Vendors, then I'm willing to sacrifice this small bit of availability for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyboardmama View Post
    It's a good thought Mav, but what would it achieve? The bottom line is we would have a list of ingredients that have not been researched for exposure via inhaling to humans.

    Look at diacetyl. The only reason we know it is bad to be inhaling it is because workers were getting sick from working in factories that used it. AKA by accident.

    So there is one nasty we know of. Are there any more? We just don't know. Popcorn flavour is a huge flavour, so there is a lot more of it being used, thereby leading to more exposure to people, and the accidental findings of popcorn lung. It would be naive for us to think that because the same sort of thing hasn't happened with other flavours in other products, that they are safe for us to be inhaling. Until there is research done on it, we simply don't know.
    Article 6 of the European Tobacco Product directive provides the Government with the ability to regulate chemicals as more scientific evidence is found. I predict Diacetyl will be banned from ejuices shortly after the EU TPD comes into affect, if it goes through this year. I would hope that we could establish a similar leglislation in Australia surrounding this issue.

    FlavourArt's clearstream project is analysing each and everyone of their concentrates. Studies like this should be funded via ecig taxes.


    Quote Originally Posted by keyboardmama View Post

    For the life of me I cannot see why Aussie vendors haven't already got together to try to apply for licenses or changing the regs somewhat, so they could at least bring in nicotine and onsell it in their juices. I wonder if any of them have looked at those sorts of options. But maybe they are selling enough already - because although people get on here and rave about overseas juices, I imagine there are so many more who don't, and who simply put in an order for nic every 3 months and buy doublers from Aussies on a regular basis.

    We really need to be pushing for studies into the effect of flavourings when inhaled, because without that info knowing what is in our juice is kind of redundant. It's like having a bucket full of nothing, IMO.
    My strongest guess is that if nicotine liquid sales were to be legalised, the big ejuice manufactures from overseas would hook up with local distributors, and the aussie vendors we see today will flop within a year. I am very familiar with ejuice concentrates, and essentially all doublers I have tried are just combinations of flavourart, PA, FW and Lorann concentrates. They're not that complex, but aussie vendors are really good at blending them. Overseas ejuices are bit more complex.

    I don't think it would hurt aussie vendors to disclose their ejuice concentrates. It would hurt them to disclose the ratios of those ingredients, but I wouldn't support that anyway.

    Anything to get these guys to form together and motivate them to have a desire to expand their businesses. There are 3 to 4 million potential customers in Australia ready to go through 3mL a day. Surely the 10 or so Aussie vendors would find that appealing if they knew that the number of vendors is going to be kept low on account of the disclosure laws.
    Last edited by mavinry4; 02-11-13 at 12:49 PM.
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  6. #6
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    Of course, once Aussie Vendors have established themselves as nicotine ejuice manufactuers after a few years, we could begin relaxing those laws, and overseas ejuice makers can begin distributing through them or others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mavinry4 View Post
    The aim is to get nicotine liquids sold locally. We need a trade association and a consumer association to push for it. If this is what will provide incentive for Aussie Vendors, then I'm willing to sacrifice this small bit of availability for it.
    There is a far more direct way of doing this. Lobby to change the law! No need for all kinds of indirect, manipulative methods...just change the bloody law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keyboardmama View Post
    We really need to be pushing for studies into the effect of flavourings when inhaled, because without that info knowing what is in our juice is kind of redundant. It's like having a bucket full of nothing, IMO.
    I completely agree with this. The flavourings are my main concern, they were never meant to be inhaled. We know PG and Nicotine is safe to inhale, but we have no idea about the other stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JenJ View Post
    There is a far more direct way of doing this. Lobby to change the law! No need for all kinds of indirect, manipulative methods...just change the bloody law.
    Simpler said than done. We need to organise ourselves to do that.

    And if the events from Europe and the US has taught us anything, nothing can be done until consumers and vendors have organised themselves into their own groups and push together to make the change.
    spud likes this.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenJ View Post
    I completely agree with this. The flavourings are my main concern, they were never meant to be inhaled. We know PG and Nicotine is safe to inhale, but we have no idea about the other stuff.
    ClearStream by FlavourArt | ClearStream by FlavourArt

    It's already being done by flavourArt.

    I wouldn't mind paying a few dollars in tax if I knew that the money was going towards this kind of research.

 

 
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