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Thread: The Guardian - proper debate is needed over the safety of e-cigarettes

  1. #1
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    The Guardian - proper debate is needed over the safety of e-cigarettes

    Worth a read
    GirlyPantz, margyb, Fatman and 5 others like this.

  2. #2
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    A balanced article ... quite a good one actually .. thanks Tug
    Bobthebuilder likes this.
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  3. #3
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    THE BELOW SHOULD BE ATTRIBUTED TO VEREYBOWRING who added this to the thread on this article. It is a COPY. Magnificent I think.

    Electronic cigarettes should be a godsend for public health but as usual the few are trying to direct the debate with obfuscation and wordplay. The best part is that these are not, until they bought into it, a product from the tobacco industry.
    Many times even the tobacco industry tried to introduce less toxic cigarettes but were batted down by public health. Public health embrace harm reduction for other drugs but seem to actively oppose it for the legal, incidentally highly profitable, nicotine industry. Pharmaceutical companies brought out NRT decades ago and let the innovation stagnate.
    Now a new technology slips by them and gets massive positive uptake and it seems to have annoyed them and they fight using lies and deception.

    Anti smoking was perhaps a public health goal in its infancy but was soon overtaken by the zealots and the power control addicts. Now we have a situation where the anti-smoking movement can see its own end and they are fighting to maintain their cash cow against health.
    It all comes down to companies wanting to maintain profits (tobacco, pharmaceutical, as well as NGO's relating to anti smoking) and to others who want to have control of a product they do not fully understand or control now.

    Yes we need a proper debate, but leave out the most outspoken anti smoking lobby thank you since they embody close minded zealotry rather than being open to proper discussion and have the real scientists talk about it.

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    <"It's time we elucidated some principles for a debate. We need to establish whether we want people to be tobacco or nicotine free, and we should ask ourselves how we identity what will and won't work."> (from the article)

    Who is "we", and what business do the "we" in this instance, have deciding whether others should be tobacco or nicotine free??

    I'm fed up to the back teeth with the arrogance of people in thinking they have the right to decide what I "should" be doing. They can pineapple off.

    This is the biggest problem in this debate, if it was about public health it would be a no brainer, and current legislation that protects consumer interests would be more than enough. The busy bodies have stuck their noses in and are trying to decide for smokers what they "should" be doing. Its ideological, not evidence based.

    Non smokers and anti-smokers, do not have skin in this debate, this is not a debate about smoking, that debate is long finished and the anti-smokers have won, they should not be deciding what vapers should be doing IMO, or how they do it. They have not had their license to judge people extended to vapers, or vaping.
    Noe, GirlyPantz, margyb and 7 others like this.
    All opinions expressed by me, are my own, I do not represent, or speak for, anyone but myself.






    STOPPED SMOKING 11/08/13 STARTED VAPING 11/08/13

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    Reading the comments led to this very interesting ASH UK fact sheet: Use of e-cigarettes in Great Britain among adults and young people (2013)

    Summary

    ASH has commissioned surveys on e-cigarette use starting in 2010 with a survey of smokers, followed in February 2012 and 2013 by surveys of all adults and in March 2013 with a survey of children aged 11 to 18.

    Among children regular use of e-cigarettes is extremely rare. Children who had heard of e-cigarettes were asked about their use and knowledge of them. What little use that is reported is confined almost entirely to children who currently smoke or used to smoke.
    • 1 in 10 16-18 year olds who had heard of e-cigarettes (1 in 20 among 11-15 year olds) has “tried e-cigarettes once or twice”.
    • 1 in 100 16-18 year olds (0% 11-15 year olds) uses e-cigarettes more than once a week.
    • Among young people who have never smoked 1% have “tried e-cigarettes once or twice”, 0% report continued e-cigarette use and 0%
    • expect to try an e-cigarette soon.


    Among adults electronic cigarette current use has grown among smokers and ex-smokers and remains at 0% among those who have never smoked. Ex-smokers report having used e-cigarettes to help a quit attempt (48%) to prevent relapse to tobacco use (32%).
    Noe, GirlyPantz, margyb and 4 others like this.

  6. #6
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    A very good read,and some good comments..Thanks TBOD
    Bobthebuilder likes this.
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    Maybe I'm in a picky mood, but this is the third article I've seen using that dreadful photo. The hand looks like it belongs to a corpse with yellowed nicotine stained skin, it's all dark and gloomy, and the guy is holding the ecig like someone who's never held a cigarette in their life, like some crotchety old skeletal man. Just a bad, bad photo that annoys me every time I see it!

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    Just read the comments and wish I could have ticked a like icon for nearly all of them. A great read
    Bobthebuilder and Donna like this.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by spud View Post
    <"It's time we elucidated some principles for a debate. We need to establish whether we want people to be tobacco or nicotine free, and we should ask ourselves how we identity what will and won't work."> (from the article)

    Who is "we", and what business do the "we" in this instance, have deciding whether others should be tobacco or nicotine free??

    I'm fed up to the back teeth with the arrogance of people in thinking they have the right to decide what I "should" be doing. They can pineapple off.

    This is the biggest problem in this debate, if it was about public health it would be a no brainer, and current legislation that protects consumer interests would be more than enough. The busy bodies have stuck their noses in and are trying to decide for smokers what they "should" be doing. Its ideological, not evidence based.

    Non smokers and anti-smokers, do not have skin in this debate, this is not a debate about smoking, that debate is long finished and the anti-smokers have won, they should not be deciding what vapers should be doing IMO, or how they do it. They have not had their license to judge people extended to vapers, or vaping.
    I highlighted the same paragraph although for different reasons (after a couple of hours I'm still trying to figure out how to explain and still doing poorly). I've probably written, deleted and re-written a couple thousand words by now as I do agree with you, but disagree at the same time. Trying to explain succinctly why is a lot harder but just wanted to leave a comment to come back to when I've had a chance to solidify my thoughts.

    For one, the statement "the anti-smokers have won" is divisive, it's not an us versus them thing, yes some are militant about it, some are pricks about it, but people are like that. Are there benefits to a smoke break, bloody oath.... do they come from the cigarette in our hand, no.

    I think the biggest issue is that for so long the general public have had the word "nicotine" equated to "cigarette" pushed onto them that there is no separating the two.

    So for the average joe/jane bloggs on the street it's not an issue of vaping vs smoking, it's a "inhaling nicotine via vaping " vs "inhaling nicotine via smoking". To them it is perceived as being the same thing.

    To me as a smoker who is now a vaper the above two aren't aren't comparable, but that's anecdotal and therefore useless/worthless.

    How we overcome that, I've no idea at the moment.

    Do I see a benefit to society as a whole by moving from smoking to vaping, too right I do. Is it right that this is dictated to us, maybe, maybe not. That's what should be debated.
    Bobthebuilder likes this.

  10. #10
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    A little gem from the comments below the article.

    It is one of life's little ironies(or God's little jokes) that all non-smokers know how to stop smoking,but no smokers do.
    Robray, dvietrod, BlackDog and 2 others like this.

 

 
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