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Thread: Prof Chapman vs Prof Polosa Debate - Do ecigs help smokers give fags the flick

  1. #1
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    Prof Chapman vs Prof Polosa Debate - Do ecigs help smokers give fags the flick

    My daughter just showed me this in the December 2013 issue of Women's Health Magazine (Aust). I hope this attachment works. If someone can turn it into a picture on the thread I'd appreciate it.


    Womens Health debate.pdf

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    Again, this: http://i.imgur.com/s3KKQA0.jpg

    No one ever mentions that fact that most anecdotal evidence comes from 2nd and 3rd generation ecig users.

    To deny this is fucking corruption.

    Anon chopped up my picture and made this;


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    Mav, may I share that pic? It's brilliant.

    And yours, Donna? I've just figured out that the small print is the debate LOL
    mavinry4, spud and Donna like this.
    Sixth Vape Year and Four Years Sans Durry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by essiemessy View Post
    Mav, may I share that pic? It's brilliant.
    It's not mine, and as far as I know, anon copylefts all their messages, so feel free to spread it as far and wide as you like :-)
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    So the evidence is far from clear as to whether they really do help people quit, rather than just talking about planning to. Now this part of the debate I don't understand. I'm sure I wasted nearly 200k on stinkies over my life, and I'm absolutely positive I have quit cigarettes by using an ecigarette. Like how much more proof do we need people???

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    From Chapman's argument in the debate:


    Did Simon Chapman just call us liars?

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    Quote Originally Posted by btobw View Post
    From Chapman's argument in the debate:


    Did Simon Chapman just call us liars?
    No, he's lying by omission. It's a sneaky and disingenuous act.
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    Quote Originally Posted by btobw View Post
    From Chapman's argument in the debate:


    Did Simon Chapman just call us liars?
    This doesn't make sense, apart from the fact that people who use e-cigs are not actually smokers and are not smoking anything, if they are not smoking tobacco, then they have quit tobacco smoking. This idea that vaping is "not really quitting", needs to be shown for the nonsense it is, at every opportunity.

    I don't smoke tobacco, and I don't smoke e-cigs, I vape. I think we need to make this really clear when we talk to people about vaping. If we don't make this clear, then people like Pimpman will continue to use language that conflates smoking and vaping, and get away with it.

    Most of us here know this is rubbish, but this is just the sort of use of language that we need to actively fight against. People may think this is being pedantic, but, language defines thought, and the language we use when talking about vaping, is just as important as the scientific facts, (Pimpman knows this, which is why he uses the language he does).
    Last edited by spud; 05-12-13 at 11:34 AM.
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    We have to play the devils advocate with these arguments. Realistically there is very little difference being addicted to nicotine, being it from Vaping or Tobacco.

    We all know which is the safer option, but Chimpman is only looking at the addiction side of things, and addiction in any shape or form is considered bad, as in his eyes it leaves the door open to relapse.

    I am waiting for some technology to allow us to Vape Caffeine. Wonder if it would initiate the same paranoia.
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    Because I trust no-one Who tells me FACTS with no proof

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robray View Post
    We have to play the devils advocate with these arguments. Realistically there is very little difference being addicted to nicotine, being it from Vaping or Tobacco.

    We all know which is the safer option, but Chimpman is only looking at the addiction side of things, and addiction in any shape or form is considered bad, as in his eyes it leaves the door open to relapse.

    I am waiting for some technology to allow us to Vape Caffeine. Wonder if it would initiate the same paranoia.
    Even this whole addiction thing is on shaky ground. If people were really hopelessly addicted to nicotine, then they would not be reducing their nicotine levels in ejuice, or simply vaping nicotine free juice, in the numbers that they are doing so. I myself am now only using 12mg in my juice, and particularly now that I'm starting to use RBAs and RDAs, I'm considering lowering this again. My tolerance level for nicotine has dropped considerably since quitting the tobacco smokes. I find that I get the same benefit from a lower, (much lower), level of nicotine. If this was a case of "addiction" then the opposite would be happening, I would be increasing my level of nicotine to achieve the same effect as when I began vaping. So I question the validity of Pimpman's view, and that of others who believe that vapers are simply replacing one form of nicotine delivery for another, but remaining "addicted" to nicotine. My own experience, and that of many others, shows this to be incorrect at worst, and inconsistent at best, either way the evidence does not support their view or argument.

    I am finding that although I have lowered my nicotine level considerably since switching to vaping, I am enjoying the flavours, and the actual act of vaping itself, just as much. I find vaping enjoyable and relaxing, in and of itself, and finding the actual nicotine component is less important. I don't know if I will stop using nicotine, because I enjoy the mild stimulatory effects, but, I do not feel as though this constitutes an "addiction" as such. Just as I don't intend to give up coffee and tea, or the odd glass of wine, just because of the puritanical view that if you enjoy something you are seen as being an addict.

    (playing devils advocate to your devils advocate )
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    All opinions expressed by me, are my own, I do not represent, or speak for, anyone but myself.






    STOPPED SMOKING 11/08/13 STARTED VAPING 11/08/13

 

 
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