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Thread: EU is planning breach of constitution

  1. #1
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    EU is planning breach of constitution

    In you didn't catch the latest VapourTrailsTV episode, Dave Dorn touched on the point that the new proposals included the banning of any promotion of ecigs whatsoever. This includes Youtube videos, online radio programs, and probably internet forums as well.

    This was posted on UKVapers.

    A recently leaked EU commission document of unverified origin shows that the EU commission plans to curb the democratic right to free speech in a coup de main at the next trialogue meetings between 3rd and 16th December.

    What is it about?

    Over the last 2 years, the EU has been working on a revision of the tobacco products directive (TPD2). At the recommendation of the WHO framework of the tobacco control (FCTC) they now also want to regulate the e-cigarette within the tobacco directive; in order to bring the consumption under the same regulations control mechanisms which previously already have been applied to the consumption of tobacco and to forbid them step by step.

    Thus, a non-tobacco containing product, which hasn’t been approved as a medical product, shall be treated in a tobacco directive more restrictively than the tobacco product itself – though it doesn’t even contain any tobacco.

    However, this contradiction doesn’t bar the EU Commission from sticking to their plans. The e-cigarette is a new product, widely unknown to the Members of European Parliament, and before it can even develop any noteworthy market potential, one strives to rather prohibit them on the quiet with the help of deceptive media campaigns and debatable statements of “experts”, the latter often being merely self-appointed.

    What they didn’t envisage though were well-informed, partly scientifically experienced, and convinced users of the e-cigarette (generally known as vapers), who had a first-hand experience of the positive effects of the switch from tobacco to e-cigarettes. They couldn’t put anything over on them; moreover those users ensured popularity, technical progress, scientific researches and finally initialized a transboundary consumer initiative against the prohibition efforts.

    As a consequence, the European Parliament contradicts the plans of the EU-Commission and leaves the e-cigarette within the tobacco directive TPD2 – wrongly so, and contrary to the distinct advice of JURI, the European Legal Committee – as a non-tobacco product, however also decides for a moderate regulation which the vapers could have accepted for the time being, even though gnashing their teeth.

    As the Parliament has to find an agreement with both the European Commission and the Council, the Commission engineers a new scheme: in a very predictive paragraph, the citizen shall be deterred in the future to gather their own information, to build pan-European information channels or even, to use existing ones. Under the cloak of the ban on advertising, the Commission claims brazenly to remove the right to free information as well as the freedom of speech!

    In the new claims regarding the TPD2 and hidden within the ban on advertising there is a passage which reads:

    “d) any form of public or private contribution to radio programmes with the aim or direct or indirect effect of promoting electronic cigarettes is prohibited;
    e) any form of public or private contribution to any event, activity or individual with the aim or direct or indirect effect of promoting electronic cigarettes and involving or taking place in several Member States or otherwise having cross-border effects is prohibited;”

    This means nothing else but a factual ban of e-cigarette forums, blogs, facebook groups, youtube channels, as well as consumers’ associations and interest groups related to the e-cigarette!

    The Vaping Community is well linked-up Europe-wide, they help each other with technical problems, invent novelties, discard useless junk, and above all agitate politically against the regulation frenzy of the EU as in the above-mentioned consumers’ campaign.

    Interest groups and consumers’ associations like the IG-ED e.V. in Germany (http://www.iged-org/) are organized by languages and not by national borders, and subsequently would then be forbidden to ever speak out in any media at all.

    This is a clear violation of the fundamental democratic right of freedom of expression!

    Possibly, this would never have been known to the public, if the EU-Commission had not tried to sell its further claims as a compromise. The truth however, is that they are trying to defend the sinecures of the tobacco and pharmaceutical industries against the e-cigarette: they lay down rules which exclude any of the existing and well-working products and therefore destroy everything which adversely affects their own concepts. “By cheer chance” by these rules only completely outdated and disputable products of the tobacco industry would get a chance, an industy which currently has begun to edge into the booming market. Noticeably, the pharmaceutical industry seems to be reserved and probably will not enter the market until it can feel safe enough to do so.

    Some examples:

    -- Ban of refillable atomizers and of liquid refills

    The technical development and progress has gained momentum by leaps and bounds in the past few years. From the initial cartridge technology, vapers have long moved on to sophisticated and well-performing tank atomizer systems. In these however, the tobacco companies have only little interest; afer all you can reutilize them nearly without limit, and therefore then own a permanently enduring product – which is not desirable as seen from the perspective of competition and profiteering. The pharmaceutical industry, on the other hand, knows how to fill little cartidges a million times. They only have to know what extactly they will be allowed to fill them with.

    -- Ban of nearly all flavours which aren’t also used in NRTs

    Without any scientific reasoning and therefore, meaningless. Mostly the argument is urged that tasty liquids beguile kids to vaping and subsequently, smoking. Several studies have already conclusively falsified this assumption.

    -- Limitation of nicotine concentration in liquids at 20 mg/ml

    Not backed up by science. On the contrary, studies show that sometimes even higher concentrations of nicotine might be recommendable for the switch from tobacco to vapor. The boundary value suggested by the EU Commission has been set merely gratuitiously and lacks any scientific basis.

    -- Limitation of nicotine volume in liquids at 10 mg/ml per packaging unit

    The only purpose of this rule would be to enable a complete ban of everything but the (completely outdated) cartridge systems of the tobacco industry.

    -- Ban of cross-border trading as well as internet trade

    Obviously the Commission is eager to regress the EU back in to the 1960s.

    -- Steady output of nicotine

    Why should a harm-reduced product be able to do something which the really harmful product can’t do either? For the time being, there is no semi-luxury product available which would fulfill the requirement of a steady output of the effective agent, something that is typical and normal for pharmaceuticals only. So then, why should this be any different in the distinctly harmreduced alternative to cigarettes?


    Here, the EU Commission is doing blatantly and tastelessly the very thing that Commissioner Tonio Borg falsely accused some EU-MEPs of: lobbying for the tobacco and pharmaceutical industries.

    Regardless of any health consequences the Commission is trying to destroy a useful product in order to codify the tobacco industry monopoly on nicotine as well as to continuously guarantee the pharmaceutical industry their safe revenues which they generate with almost ineffective nicotine substitutes. Scientific findings pro e-vaping are constantly being ignored and maliciously negated.

    Critical and informed users and citizens would be gagged in the future and quite obviously be deprived of their basic civil rights. In general, the freedom of speech is being limited in this way only by political systems that previously had appeared to be extinct in European culture. But the European Commission manages to turn democracies gradually and insidiously into a European dictatorship ("Eurokratur").

    Obviously Australia will soon follow if this does go through, in which case you may still be able to purchase your nicotine ejuice on some variant of the S**kRoad, and Aussievaper's will be relocated to avfksjlksdfjksdjflksdfj.0nion

    I'm extremely suspicious now about this particular point:

    “By cheer chance” by these rules only completely outdated and disputable products of the tobacco industry would get a chance, an industy which currently has begun to edge into the booming market. Noticeably, the pharmaceutical industry seems to be reserved and probably will not enter the market until it can feel safe enough to do so.


    I'm beginning to now believe that this picture is not so accurate. That, in actual fact, this was the picture that was more realistic in describing what was really going on behind the scenes.

  2. #2
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    If this scenario goes the same way every other change has been made, Australia will follow the EU and America's lead, without even bothering to investigate the claims made by independent doctors and scientists.
    We could be in for changes that will restrict our freedom of choice drastically.

  3. #3
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    The one good thing about all these abuses by the commission is that the parliament will most likely reject the whole thing, especially with all the lobbying going on in the vaping community. At least I think that's the case. I hope so anyway.
    margyb, Donna and vaping_gal like this.

  4. #4
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    Personally, I don't think BT, the EU, the Yanks or even the Aussie Govt wants it medicalised. They want it under the umbrella of tobacco legislation which is what the EU Commissions list recommendations propose. The reason is $$$$ and this is the sales pitch BT make to Governments. I think BP had their chance in the US and it was rejected by the FDA because the US Govt could see more $$$$ by going down the tobacco road instead. BP's role in this is to encourage such strict rules controlling ecigs that the average smoker is neither encouraged or effective in getting off tobacco or medical NRT with the product.

    This is a win/win for BP because if the legal ecigs on the market are ineffective/don't sell, they don't lose their market share in NRT.
    If they do work (somewhat) and the nic is limitied, they keep selling their version of nicotine for dual use to "Give every smoker the best chance of quitting".

    It is win/win for BT because if the legal ecigs on the market don't work, they don't lose their market share in Cigarettes. If they work, they have lifelong customers with their proprietary cartridges.

    It is win/win for Governments because if the legal ecigs on the market don't work, they get their tobacco taxes. If they do work, they get their tobacco taxes.

    It is win/win for the NGO's and so called experts like chimpman because to them, Vapers are really just "those other smokers"!

    The good news is that whatever does get through does not come into effect until 2017 in the EU. IMO, Abbott's sales pitch to Aussies is "we are removing red tape and unnecessary regulation". It would be a complete U turn from this mantra to regulate a new product category prior to the EU or the US and unlikely, particularly in his first term of Government.
    Noe, margyb, Pipesub and 1 others like this.

  5. #5
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    All well put Donna and I agree with 99.99% but ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna View Post
    It would be a complete U turn from this mantra to regulate a new product category prior to the EU or the US and unlikely, particularly in his first term of Government.
    I'm not reassured that any government is reluctant to backflip on policy matters (good or bad) if the cost benefit analysis suits the agenda of the day.
    Commonwealth plays down NBN map changes - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
    Money for nothing in Gonski backflip - The Drum (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
    Liberal back flip on net filter - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
    Etc,Etc

    Policy, mantra and ideology are tools to get in to office. After that - follow the money.
    margyb, avtek, Donna and 1 others like this.

  6. #6
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    Yes pipesub, if the libs do do it, they will just say "the Labor party had already put ecigs under the tobacco umbrella (which they have), all we are doing is aligning the taxation so smokers aren't being discriminated against" I can hear it now.
    avtek, Pipesub and vaping_gal like this.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donna View Post
    "smokers aren't being discriminated against
    Oh, you have a twisted mind ;-). The hypocrisy in that thought alone summons up an Orwellian image that is all too common these days in government.
    Donna likes this.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pipesub View Post
    Oh, you have a twisted mind ;-). The hypocrisy in that thought alone summons up an Orwellian image that is all too common these days in government.
    Can't you tell I watch Question Time? I know, it's unfortunate but I find it has as many fiendish plots, backstabbing, twists and turns as the Bold and the Beautiful.
    Pipesub and vaping_gal like this.

  9. #9
    Noe
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    Well if by 2015, any of you don't have a 20yr supply of nic in storage, then you can expect to be getting nic at exorbitant black market prices soon after
    Stock up while you still can
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