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Thread: The “We just don’t know” Bullsh!t

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    The “We just don’t know” Bullsh!t

    “We just don’t know” is a bit old, isn’t it? | Anti-THR Lies and related topics

    Carl Phillips attacks the ever so common statement spouted by e-cig opponents; "we just don't know".

    We knew nothing about #ecigs in 2008, and 5.5 years later we still know nothing. But we're experts. Right?

    The constant repetition of c.2008 ignorance — “we just don’t know” — is no longer caution, it is a lie.
    Last edited by mavinry4; 25-01-14 at 11:25 AM.
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    I wonder how many research grants applications seeking to research e-cigs have been declined by the ARC and NHMRC, of which the money was awarded instead to those investigating the correct shade of poo to colour cigarette boxes.

    Willful ignorance in order to protect the tobacco and NRT industry.
    margyb, spud, lou and 1 others like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mavinry4 View Post
    I wonder how many research grants applications seeking to research e-cigs have been declined by the ARC and NHMRC, of which the money was awarded instead to those investigating the correct shade of poo to colour cigarette boxes.

    Willful ignorance in order to protect the tobacco and NRT industry.
    Well hasn't Mr Ranty Pantz got something to say today.
    Willful ignorance, love it. This should be developed into a repeatable agrument.

    Nice Mav, good Mav
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    I wish I had a dollar for every time I've read "we just don't know what's in them"
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    How many times have we seen, in Australia alone, the sort of "report" we saw on 7 news in WA last night??? It works because people are happy being ignorant, and most will not educate themselves, even if it could save their lives. The words used like, "we don't know whats in ecigs", or "they contain chemicals" or even better from an ANTZ perspective, "toxins", are used to make people feel justified in their ignorance. People expect health authorities to know whats in a product, they expect them to give them honest factual information, and when that fails, like it has in the case of snus, and e-cigs, people will refuse to believe that they have been deliberately lied to.

    How many people "know" what toxins and chemicals are in the air they breathe every day?? Or in the water they drink, or the food they eat?? Most people don't know, and never bother to find out, (far more scary than ecigs). Its not financially beneficial to those that control the wealth to frighten the horses in this way.

    Its the language used that entrenches the conditioning, and its all very deliberate. Not only do vapers have to get past the lies and misinformation given to people by those that are unethical and amoral, vapers have to get past the conditioning that people have been subject to for decades now, and all of us in this country and elsewhere have been conditioned in this way, whether we want to believe it or not.

    Thanks to thinking parents, that never trusted anyone, (they were refugees, and knew exactly what governments and their lackeys thought of the people), I grew up questioning everything, and trusting no one that presumed to tell me what I should and should not be doing, simply because "they" knew what was best for "me". However, even that didn't prevent me from being subject to conditioning by the media, and those that control the media.

    The media, and to a great extent, the ANTZ, are just the useful idiots of those that control the wealth.
    All opinions expressed by me, are my own, I do not represent, or speak for, anyone but myself.






    STOPPED SMOKING 11/08/13 STARTED VAPING 11/08/13

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    It is slowly evolving into "we don't know if they are safe in the longterm" - which is a subtle change, but hollow words just the same.

    Let's look at what we do know for a moment?
    We know that the vast majority who take up vaping are smokers, who either stop smoking all together or reduce their tobacco consumption to a large extent.
    We are told that 50% to 75% of smokers will die prematurely from smoking related disease.

    So.. my question? How are we ever going to get longterm information about vaping, unless there's a huge take up by never smokers (which is something we as vapers really don't want to see happen and doesn't appear to be happening by all accounts)?

    If vapers who were smokers continue to die from smoking related disease, how will they know if it the damage was already done by years of smoking or whether the disease was caused/exacerbated by vaping?

    It honestly looks like it's an impossible position, an impossible question to answer?
    margyb, Old Dog, mavinry4 and 6 others like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsgruffy View Post
    It is slowly evolving into "we don't know if they are safe in the longterm" - which is a subtle change, but hollow words just the same.

    Let's look at what we do know for a moment?
    We know that the vast majority who take up vaping are smokers, who either stop smoking all together or reduce their tobacco consumption to a large extent.
    We are told that 50% to 75% of smokers will die prematurely from smoking related disease.

    So.. my question? How are we ever going to get longterm information about vaping, unless there's a huge take up by never smokers (which is something we as vapers really don't want to see happen and doesn't appear to be happening by all accounts)?

    If vapers who were smokers continue to die from smoking related disease, how will they know if it the damage was already done by years of smoking or whether the disease was caused/exacerbated by vaping?

    It honestly looks like it's an impossible position, an impossible question to answer?
    The lack of long term studies into the health effects of any new technology, food, drug, etc, has not been a problem for the vast majority of those that control the wealth, the only time that this argument gets trotted out, (like the "we don't know whats in them" crap with e liquid), is when it suits the controllers of wealth, to do so, because it will effect their accumulation of yet more wealth.

    If they were interested in the health of smokers or vapers, Dr Farsalinos wouldn't be having to crowd source his funding for research into e liquids, in fact there would be a huge amount of data available, as if this technology benefited those that control the majority of the worlds wealth, the research would have started when ecigs first came onto the market.
    margyb, Old Dog, mavinry4 and 2 others like this.
    All opinions expressed by me, are my own, I do not represent, or speak for, anyone but myself.






    STOPPED SMOKING 11/08/13 STARTED VAPING 11/08/13

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    One step in the right direction for me is to find out what is in the eliquids I vape. I choose to avoid eliquids with known inhalation risks and because of the limited labeling requirements, I will go to the effort to find out; some may not think this is important.

    However, generally speaking I am prepared to take on any risk to vape rather than smoke because my body tells me that vaping is better for me than smoking and I'm happy with that.

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    my sister is one of those that think msg and artificial flavours ate her dingo/cause autism/cause add/cause bipolar, iknow it's off tpic and this type of thread tends more towards professionalism, but man what i would give for 1980's style BBQ shapes. the natural flavours etc just don't cut it, but the protestors are winning and i am losing
    "Vapers- The evangelical vegans of the smoking community"
    Quote Originally Posted by btobw View Post
    1 vote for DogMan because squonkers, dogs, chooks and brevity

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    lol well rebel against the machine?
    Quote Originally Posted by DogMan View Post
    my sister is one of those that think msg and artificial flavours ate her dingo/cause autism/cause add/cause bipolar, iknow it's off tpic and this type of thread tends more towards professionalism, but man what i would give for 1980's style BBQ shapes. the natural flavours etc just don't cut it, but the protestors are winning and i am losing
    spud likes this.
    “But I don’t want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
    "Oh, you can’t help that," said the Cat: "we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad."
    "How do you know I’m mad?" said Alice.
    "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn’t have come here.”
    Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland






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