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Thread: The MHRA Is Back-pedalling

  1. #1
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    The MHRA Is Back-pedalling

    An interesting view from the pro-smokers.
    Sounds like he would like to use vapers as a battering ram against denormalization.


    There is one thing that is sure. If Vapers hold their nerve and take appropriate action, they can have ecigs removed from the Tobacco Control Directive altogether. But time is running short. Vapers HOLD THE HIGH MORAL GROUND!! That is critically important. It verifies their HUMAN RIGHT to use ecigs wherever the please, in PUBLIC PLACES. Remember that it was the charlatans in the Tobacco Control Industry who stole private property and turned it into ‘public places’. The Zealots must be hoist by their own petard. No …. bars and restaurants cannot forbid you to use an ecig because THEY ARE PUBLIC PLACES! They are no longer allowed to control what happens in these places. They are no longer their property except in name only. But do not demonstrate in bars. Demonstrate only in town halls and such. Put the onus to stop you on the devils who created the laws.

    Vapers hold the high moral ground. It is very sad that they are just as impotent as smokers. There are few signs that they have courage. They may shout, but where are the defiers in New York? Why are hundreds of vapers not gathering every day in libraries, town halls, and such (but NOT privately owned bars) and deliberately vaping? Bloomberg has money – vapers have people.

    =========

    Or perhaps the ‘millions of vapers’ is itself a miasma.
    The MHRA Is Back-pedalling | Bolton Smokers Club
    margyb and maggie like this.

  2. #2
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    The thing is with smokers is you smell them before you see them.

    It's hard to make a stand vaping because unlike smoking, nobody notices or is particularly offended by the smell. You'd virtually have to blow vapour in someone's face to make an issue of it.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Dog View Post
    An interesting view from the pro-smokers.
    Sounds like he would like to use vapers as a battering ram against denormalization.

    The MHRA Is Back-pedalling | Bolton Smokers Club
    I don't know, this guy seems a bit full of it.

    Firstly,

    "they can have ecigs removed from the Tobacco Control Directive altogether"

    I don't think so. Very low chance that e-cigs will be removed from the upcoming TPD vote in March. There's a better chance that article 18 will be re-opened and amended, if enough signatures are gathered.

    Secondly, in response to pissing the public off by vaping everywhere possible is counterproductive. It only pokes the bear and gives vapers a bad reputation. It's better to fight for a compromise, such as petitioning railways sytems to permit vaping on every first and last carriage, petitioning to allow private businesses to decide on whether they want vaping allowed on their premises, and networking with large organizations such as airports, hospitals and Universities to establish vape-welcomed allocated areas.

    If this guy is a pro-smoker, then I'd be suspicious about his ulterior motives for encouraging vapers to go out and cause a riot.

  4. #4
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    This is Junican, the guy from Bolton Smokers Club, who can be smelt before seen and is full of it.
    I suppose that I should be honoured that some vapers from the other side of the world picked up the smell of tobacco because, Yes, I was smoking tobacco at the time that I wrote that post.
    It would have been nice if 'Old Dog' had copied the real meat of the post concerning the back-peddling by the MHRA. It is this (quoted from the MHRA article):

    The UK will reflect the outcome of continuing negotiations of the European Tobacco Directive (external link) which aims to bring in additional regulatory requirements for electronic cigarettes that are not licensed as medicines.”

    Note the words "will reflect" (not, 'will reflect upon'). 'Will reflect' is a cute phrase. It avoids stating clearly that the MHRA will do what the EU directive says, and not go it alone with medicinal regulation. I would have thought that you chaps would have seen the importance of that, since Australia would have almost certainly followed suit eventually. Ah, but wait. Nicotine ecig are already banned in Oz, aren't they? Pity, that.

    Here are a couple of interesting facts which you may or may not be aware of. Potatoes, tomatoes, green peppers, cauliflower, and even tea, contain nicotine. Whenever you eat or drink those substances, you absorb some nicotine. Not a lot, but a measurable amount. The more of those substances you ingest, the more nicotine you absorb, and, whereas with tobacco you can blow the smoke out again, what you ingest by eating stays inside.
    Here's another thing. Do you know that your government enacted a law decades ago which requires flour used to make bread to be fortified with vitamin B3? So what, you might say. Well, vitamin B3 is known as 'niacin'. Do you know why? Because the 'powers-that-be, at the time, did not want it to be called by its real name, which is "nicotinic acid". If vitamin B3 is absent from the diet, various ailments ensue which can result in death. A particularly nasty consequence is known as 'pellagra'. In effect, the skin rots. Here is a picture if a man suffering from pellagra:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...llagra_NIH.jpg

    We would all peg out without this form of nicotine.

    I was a bit surprised about the tone of the remarks above. Are you chaps former smokers? It is just a bit odd, that's all, that you believe that you used to be disgusting, filthy, stinking scum. Isn't it surprising what propaganda can do to the human brain? Far worse that tobacco smoke.
    I have an e-cig, although I rarely use it. The last time that I used it extensively was on a American cruise ship two years ago. But I always take it on holiday with me.

    Specifically about the content of the remarks above, it might surprise you to know that changes in the Tobacco Control Directive have not been brought about by vapers and retailer/manufacturers alone. Massive support came from dual users, of which there are many. I personally have written dozens of emails to MEPs myself. I am not sure that you appreciate our support.
    The main thing about the suggestions that I made about rebelling is that YOU HOLD THE HIGH MORAL GROUND! You have been good boys and girls and stopped smoking tobacco. Now the Zealots in the Tobacco Control Industry want to eliminate you from public view because vaping looks a little like smoking (as does sucking a lollipop). If you are happy to be ground down, then by all means put your trust in the Tobacco Control Industry (together with the Drugs Companies).

    Smokers and vapers may not be 'brothers', but we are 'cousins'.

    One last thing. I am slim, dark-haired, very healthy (as my most recent tests showed (tests for minor prostate problems)) and I am seventy four and have been smoking, with the odd breaks of two weeks, three months and twelve months, since I was nineteen. I don't think that I'm dead, but I suppose that I might be a little bit dead.
    Robray, JenJ and spud like this.

  5. #5
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    Welcome Junican.

    Non compliance is my way and the more of us that ignore the so called rules that the systems invents for us the less it can do about it.

    We do have the numbers, I wish we didn't have the fear.

    We may all be a little bit dead, the system educated us afterall.
    spud likes this.

  6. #6
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    Welcome Junican, I have seen your name and moniker all over the internet and always enjoyed your thoughts. Hope you stay around a little, be nice to get a smokers viewpoint as we are all too forgetful at times of our own history and unfortunately too keen to disown it.
    spud likes this.

  7. #7
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    This is Junican, the guy from Bolton Smokers Club
    Welcome Junican, I've seen you around the traps and given you a 'thumbs up' or 'like' many times for your comments.

    I suppose that I should be honoured that some vapers from the other side of the world
    As we are honoured that you have deemed our antipodean vaping outpost worthy of your time.

    It would have been nice if 'Old Dog' had copied the real meat of the post
    I included in the quote what I thought our members would be interested in reading.

    Here are a couple of interesting facts which you may or may not be aware of.
    We are aware of the nicotine in vegetables, particularly those in the nightshade genus.

    Are you chaps former smokers?
    I smoked for 42 years and am now a triple user ... vaping/ snus/ nasal snuff and am seriously considering purchasing some small cigars (SHOCK HORROR) in the future, as an occasional indulgence.

    Isn't it surprising what propaganda can do to the human brain?
    Yes, I've read the Godber blueprint.

    I am not sure that you appreciate our support.
    We appreciate your support.

    The main thing about the suggestions that I made about rebelling is that YOU HOLD THE HIGH MORAL GROUND!
    We know this, but our numbers are very small.

    Smokers and vapers may not be 'brothers', but we are 'cousins'.
    Smokers and vapers are both passengers at either end of a shrinking lifeboat, surrounded by marauding sharks.
    The rise of vaping as a disruptive new technology has upset the status quo in the global nicotine market,
    with billions at stake for vested interests.

    What the end result will be is not known, but I suspect that Pharma and tobacco companies will continue trading profitably and Governments will re-jig their taxing schedules to compensate for any losses.

    Our real enemies are the ANTZ, and they are financed by Government and Pharma.

    If vaping uptake keeps progressing, NRT sales will dry up and Pharma won't see so much use for their attack dogs, and Governments will announce their success and start winding back funding.

    My point was - smokers goading vapers into public anti social behaviour is not going to help anything, as it will just supply the ANTZ with more ammunition.

  8. #8
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    Thank you all for the very warm welcome. When I first read the comments, I was rather horrified due to what I would call 'the disconnect'. I'm not quite sure what I mean by that, except that those of us who enjoy tobacco, and those of us who enjoy only the nicotine-with-flavours, are all described by The Tobacco Control Industry in varying degrees of "disgusting, filthy, stinking, addicted scum".
    There are quite a number of 'Health Zealots' who are decent people, and who are not charlatans. I include Dr Siegel and Dr Phillips (You see! Not all 'Doctors' are quacks, though most of them are). For those who are not aware, here are their blogs:
    The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary

    Anti-THR Lies and related topics | because cultivating the truth requires both seeding and weeding

    But I assume that readers will already know about those sources.

    ---------

    Have I 'ulterior motives'? Erm ... Yes, I suppose so. My ulterior motive is to rid our civilisation of those contemptible Zealots who would stop smokers (and vapers) from opening their own PRIVATE establishments such as bars and eateries. There is no doubt - the smoking ban in 'Public Places' is just as vicious as any 'colour' ban. In effect, because the smoking ban forbids smokers to open their own bars and eateries, open to the general public if they wish to engage, a form of 'racism' has been effected by Government.
    And, Vapers have already been affected by this form of Racism. In New York, vapers are disgusting, filthy, stinking, addicted scum.

    But back to Oz. Is it true that nicotine containing ecigs are banned? But nicotine containing spuds, tomatoes, peppers, and even tea are not? Ingestion is ingestion, whether by inhalation or eating. Your country is enormous, but your commonwealth is comparatively small. You ought to be able to oust the Zealots, if only because they distract. From what do they distract? Ho! Ho! THEY know what they are distracting you from - you do not. It is all very tatifilarious. (I suspect that I have misspelt that word, but I doubt that it matters to the Chinese importers of cured tobacco leaf)

    If the WHO (and its Big Pharm financiers) invaded Australia with tanks and troops, Australians would fight like alley-cats, would they not? And yet they allow an invasion by stealth.
    Why not just accept slavery? You do not care, as is evidenced by your acceptance of nicotine free ecig laws.

    Sorry! A bit below the belt, I must admit, but you/we must never accept slavery, and especially by freaks like Chapman. But that is up to you. Sad though it may be, Australia is no longer a distant Blighty, and that might be what Australians want. But, sadly, the reverse is also true. Australia is no longer 'Blighty' as far as Brits are concerned. It is a far away country of which we know little about.
    DECIDE!!!!!!!!"
    Old Dog likes this.

  9. #9
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    Australians, by nature, are very laid back. I watched a clip about vapers in Milan a few days ago, where 1000s of people were protesting for the government to leave their ecigs alone... it was a joyful sight to behold. I think the powers that be here in Australia cash in on our laid back attitude. Creeping new rules in, just a bit at a time, in a sort of evolutionary rather than revolutionary style. They announced a few months ago that cigarettes are going to go up 25% each year for the next 4 years, and not even one lone protester was sighted.

    On a personal note, I took my middle child out to a protest once, protesting against ther tree hugging greenies who were threatening to literally take the bread off my family's table with their meddling. My child was embarrassed to be part of the fuss, which is why I singled that child out to drag along. I think that times are going to change though, now that we have had a change in government, one who appears to be anti 'the people' in favour of big corporations and profits. I'm hoping for a bit of a social revolution and a return to the time of a passionate society who would stand up and be counted when their liberties and standard of living are threatened. One lives in hope.

    I am a non-practicing smoker.
    margyb, Old Dog and spud like this.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junican View Post
    Thank you all for the very warm welcome. When I first read the comments, I was rather horrified due to what I would call 'the disconnect'. I'm not quite sure what I mean by that, except that those of us who enjoy tobacco, and those of us who enjoy only the nicotine-with-flavours, are all described by The Tobacco Control Industry in varying degrees of "disgusting, filthy, stinking, addicted scum".
    There are quite a number of 'Health Zealots' who are decent people, and who are not charlatans. I include Dr Siegel and Dr Phillips (You see! Not all 'Doctors' are quacks, though most of them are). For those who are not aware, here are their blogs:
    The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary

    Anti-THR Lies and related topics | because cultivating the truth requires both seeding and weeding

    But I assume that readers will already know about those sources.

    ---------

    Have I 'ulterior motives'? Erm ... Yes, I suppose so. My ulterior motive is to rid our civilisation of those contemptible Zealots who would stop smokers (and vapers) from opening their own PRIVATE establishments such as bars and eateries. There is no doubt - the smoking ban in 'Public Places' is just as vicious as any 'colour' ban. In effect, because the smoking ban forbids smokers to open their own bars and eateries, open to the general public if they wish to engage, a form of 'racism' has been effected by Government.
    And, Vapers have already been affected by this form of Racism. In New York, vapers are disgusting, filthy, stinking, addicted scum.

    But back to Oz. Is it true that nicotine containing ecigs are banned? But nicotine containing spuds, tomatoes, peppers, and even tea are not? Ingestion is ingestion, whether by inhalation or eating. Your country is enormous, but your commonwealth is comparatively small. You ought to be able to oust the Zealots, if only because they distract. From what do they distract? Ho! Ho! THEY know what they are distracting you from - you do not. It is all very tatifilarious. (I suspect that I have misspelt that word, but I doubt that it matters to the Chinese importers of cured tobacco leaf)

    If the WHO (and its Big Pharm financiers) invaded Australia with tanks and troops, Australians would fight like alley-cats, would they not? And yet they allow an invasion by stealth.
    Why not just accept slavery? You do not care, as is evidenced by your acceptance of nicotine free ecig laws.

    Sorry! A bit below the belt, I must admit, but you/we must never accept slavery, and especially by freaks like Chapman. But that is up to you. Sad though it may be, Australia is no longer a distant Blighty, and that might be what Australians want. But, sadly, the reverse is also true. Australia is no longer 'Blighty' as far as Brits are concerned. It is a far away country of which we know little about.
    DECIDE!!!!!!!!"
    She'll be right, mate.

    Edit. Siegel is a reformed quack.

 

 
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