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Thread: "E-cigarette a likely gateway to smoking, report finds" SMH 07-03-2014

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    "E-cigarette a likely gateway to smoking, report finds" SMH 07-03-2014

    E-cigarette a likely gateway to smoking, report finds

    Spotted this in my travels this morning.
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    The study shows correlation, not causation, said Cynthia Cabrera, executive director of Smoke-Free Alternatives Trade Association, an e-cigarette association based in Washington.

    "I've yet to see any science that shows there's a gateway effect," Ms Cabrera said."We want to work with facts and science, we don't want to make knee-jerk decisions based on emotional responses."

    She warned against drawing inferences on teen use based on the use of flavours in e-cigarettes.

    "We do know that thousands of people were able to switch over to vapour products because of the flavours," she said. "Would we deny people who were in a group who could die from tobacco to use flavours that helped them get off killer tobacco?"


    Professor Siegel debunked the study quite well here: The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: Conclusion of New Glantz Study on Electronic Cigarettes is Junk Science


    Essentially, the study's conclusion is equivalent to saying that weight loss pills cause obesity because only obese people take them.
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    The study shows correlation, not causation, said Cynthia Cabrera
    This is the only true sentence in the entire article.

    If they were really concerned about the kiddies the EU would have banned disposable cigalikes and allowed 2nd & 3rd gen devices and juice..there's nothing cool or glamorous about them and refillables require a concerted effort to acquire and use. I doubt many youths would bother with them.

    That would kill two birds; discourage youth and non-smokers, and support harm minimisation for die hard nic addicts.

    Edit: it would also f*ck up BT, which would be a nice side bonus.
    Last edited by JenJ; 12-03-14 at 10:24 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenJ View Post
    2nd & 3rd gen devices and juice..there's nothing cool or glamorous about them.
    There are many here that would disagree with you on that one!

    Even the dorky ones are cooler than NRT - and back when I was in high school, nicotine patches and gums were considered cool (and had a user base).
    GirlyPantz, spud, DaveJ and 1 others like this.
    These things.

    I have some things.
    I vape them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fractal View Post
    There are many here that would disagree with you on that one!

    Even the dorky ones are cooler than NRT - and back when I was in high school, nicotine patches and gums were considered cool (and had a user base).
    Interesting that you should mention the patches and gums as being considered cool, as my friends teenage son mentioned that at exam times a lot of students use nicotine patches, gums, and even the plastic inhaler things to keep them awake and able to concentrate when studying. He also mentioned that because you can sneak them into classes, and even exams, (no smoke, or drink (energy drinks), so no way of knowing the kid is using it), they are very popular. None of these kids actually smoke either, and none of them have taken up smoking.

    This whole "gateway" crap, is just that, crap, if kids are going to get addicted to nicotine, they are far more likely to get it from using "approved" and easily available in supermarkets, NRT. Yet we hear no big hoohaa about this, and its something that is actually happening.
    All opinions expressed by me, are my own, I do not represent, or speak for, anyone but myself.






    STOPPED SMOKING 11/08/13 STARTED VAPING 11/08/13

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    Quote Originally Posted by spud View Post
    Interesting that you should mention the patches and gums as being considered cool, as my friends teenage son mentioned that at exam times a lot of students use nicotine patches, gums, and even the plastic inhaler things to keep them awake and able to concentrate when studying.
    My jaw dropped when I read this. I had no idea.

    I finished high school in the late 70s. I do not have kids. Clearly, I am out of touch with modern reality.

    "In my day" (sigh!), smoking tobacco or, perhaps booze, were the only "bad things" likely to be attractive to me and my school mates. They were the things our parents were worried about. We feared what our parents would say if we were caught smoking. We predated all the ADHD "dexies". There was no such thing as energy drinks or NRT or any other "uppers" - except for coke & coffee, neither of which had much hold amongst people I knew. I recall there were a few whispers of heroin from the press, but no-one I knew knew anything about that stuff.

    I do not envy the troubles facing modern parents. Things certainly have changed since I was younger - and, in many ways, not for the better.
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    Sent by DaveJ

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    i work at a school (doing IT stuff) , i'll have to ask around see if anyone has heard or see kids with nic patches, because i sure haven't,
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveJ View Post
    My jaw dropped when I read this. I had no idea.

    I finished high school in the late 70s. I do not have kids. Clearly, I am out of touch with modern reality.

    "In my day" (sigh!), smoking tobacco or, perhaps booze, were the only "bad things" likely to be attractive to me and my school mates. They were the things our parents were worried about. We feared what our parents would say if we were caught smoking. We predated all the ADHD "dexies". There was no such thing as energy drinks or NRT or any other "uppers" - except for coke & coffee, neither of which had much hold amongst people I knew. I recall there were a few whispers of heroin from the press, but no-one I knew knew anything about that stuff.

    I do not envy the troubles facing modern parents. Things certainly have changed since I was younger - and, in many ways, not for the better.
    Several of my friends have teenagers in high school, but they have a different attitude to what is "bad" these days. It seems that many of the older teenagers think nothing of getting a few "Es" for the weekend, and that is almost seen as somewhat tame. They use energy drinks like redbull etc, to get themselves over their weekend hangovers, (many in the 18-22 age group, and some younger ones, binge drink every weekend), some indulge in speed, but only on the weekend, and nicotine gum in particular is used as a pep me up, as are "no doze" caffeine pills.

    A lot of kids are on anti-anxiety and anti-depressant prescription pills, with their parents consent. It actually shocked me how many kids take these things, almost like a rite of passage, or some sort of achievement, adds to the drama of being a "teenager" I guess. They don't see it as any sort of problem.

    Smoking however, among the more middle income kids, is seen as disgusting, and they dislike that some of their parents smoke. Among the poorer kids there is a greater smoking prevalence, and there are a lot of smokers among the indigenous kids.

    I don't know that modern parents face any more problems with teenagers than parents did in the past, its just the problems change.
    All opinions expressed by me, are my own, I do not represent, or speak for, anyone but myself.






    STOPPED SMOKING 11/08/13 STARTED VAPING 11/08/13

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    Would all those people who are current smokers who moved on to smoking after they began vaping as non smokers please step forward?

    Anyone?

    Don't be shy....

    Really? Nobody?

    Hmmmm!

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    Quote Originally Posted by spud View Post
    Several of my friends have teenagers in high school, but they have a different attitude to what is "bad" these days. It seems that many of the older teenagers think nothing of getting a few "Es" for the weekend, and that is almost seen as somewhat tame. They use energy drinks like redbull etc, to get themselves over their weekend hangovers, (many in the 18-22 age group, and some younger ones, binge drink every weekend), some indulge in speed, but only on the weekend, and nicotine gum in particular is used as a pep me up, as are "no doze" caffeine pills.

    A lot of kids are on anti-anxiety and anti-depressant prescription pills, with their parents consent. It actually shocked me how many kids take these things, almost like a rite of passage, or some sort of achievement, adds to the drama of being a "teenager" I guess. They don't see it as any sort of problem.

    Smoking however, among the more middle income kids, is seen as disgusting, and they dislike that some of their parents smoke. Among the poorer kids there is a greater smoking prevalence, and there are a lot of smokers among the indigenous kids.

    I don't know that modern parents face any more problems with teenagers than parents did in the past, its just the problems change.
    Well, of course, I had heard of all the various substances which could be/are being abused - energy drinks, no-doze, "E" and other "recreational drugs" and what they can do. But I had no idea that use of those drugs, seemingly, has gained such wide acceptance within the community.

    If it is true - and I do not doubt your words, Spud - that such acceptance is common within at least a reasonable portion of our youth, then Australia has far greater problems facing it than the perceived issues quoted with freeing up nicotine and E-cigs.

    I'll never understand how smoking could be worse than dropping "Es".

    I'm glad I'm not a parent trying to guide children through that sort of minefield.

    Dave
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