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Thread: My email and response to state parliament.

  1. #1
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    My email and response to state parliament.

    Hello Mr Shaw.

    My name is Dan Jackson, I am a resident of Carrum downs.

    I was wondering if you could clear something up for me relating to state laws? I smoked over 50 a day for 20 years, and 3 months ago switched to a Personal Vapouriser [PV] AKA "electronic cigarette". These are sourced online, and links provided on websites state that while the sale of nicotine based liquid here is illegal under the poisons act, the importation is legal up to a 3 month supply for personal use.

    Is this the truth? It is what I have been adhering to, but nowhere can I find clarification on what 3 month supply is in metrics. As a guide, I vape 3-5ml per day of 12mg liquid.

    The sites I visit base this on nicotine being a non-approved therapeutic good.

    Can you please provide links or print outs to point me to relevant legislation in regard to this? I want clarity more than anything. Other sources say it is a schedule 7 poison and possession is banned.

    Thanking you
    Hello Dan

    Thanks for your email.

    Your local member as from November 2013 is Donna Bauer the Member for
    Carrum.

    I have copied her into this correspondence and I am sure she will respond
    to your request.

    All the very best
    Dear Mr Jackson,

    I write on behalf of Donna Bauer Member for Carrum following receipt of your email from the Member for Frankston Geoff Shaw.

    Mr Shaw has kindly sent your email onto our office, as with the recent Victorian Electoral Commission changes to the electorate boundaries, the area of Carrum Downs now falls within the seat of Carrum.

    Please be assured we are seeking advice on a Ministerial level in relation to your concerns and will be in further contact upon receipt of the Ministers response. I suspect this may fall within the jurisdiction of the National Government however am sure the State Minister will advise if this is the case.

    Thank you for your inquiry, we will be in contact soon.

    Yours sincerely,
    Dear Mr Jackson,

    I write just as a follow up to assure you we are still seeking clarification on this issue for you. It can take some time to hear back from the Ministers office however as soon as we do, we will be sure to be in touch.

    Kind regards,

    Rochelle McArthur
    Electorate Officer | PA & Office Manager
    Office of Donna Bauer MLA, State Member for Carrum
    A. 374 Nepean Highway CHELSEA VIC 3196
    Ph. 03 9772 4544
    Fax. 03 9776 0138
    Dear Mr Jackson,

    I write further to your enquiry with Donna Bauer regarding clarification relating to possession and use of electronic cigarettes.

    Donna made representation to the Minister for Health in relation to you inquiries and has received a response. Please find a copy of his response for your information:





    Thank you for contacting Donna, we hope this information is of assistance to you.

    Your sincerely,
    ecigs_legislation.pdf

    Basically says everything from possession and use to obtaining from overseas is currently illegal in Victoria.

    edited to add, fm raised further questions, so i emailed the address i wassupplied for further questions

    [Addressed to dpu@health.vic.gov.au]

    Clarification on legislation regarding Personal Vapourisers delivering nicotine

    Hello,

    My name is ..., I write in regard to Personal Vapourisers, also knows as ENDS [Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems] and the legislation pertaining to thus.

    I have been in contact with my local member, but have unresolved questions. I was pointed towards legislation from 2009 concerning PVs as a cessation aid specifically, as well as the Poisons act of 2006. Within that however, I only found reference to local sale within Australia and it's borders.

    The email from Donna Bauer, Member for Carrum, stated that:

    "In Victoria, it is illegal to manufacture, sell, supply, purchase, or otherwise obtain, possess or use an electronic cigarette or cartridge containing nicotine.

    The prohibition applies to electronic cigarettes obtained from anywhere in within Australia as well as overseas, whether over the internet or by any other means."

    But this statement does not reference any particular legislation. If you could provide more information on this I would be greatly appreciative.

    Thank You
    My name is Ely Finch and I am a Drugs & Poisons Field Officer (and pharmacist) who works in the Victorian Department of Health's Drugs and Poisons Regulation unit, which is responsible for administering this state's Drugs, Poisons and Controlled Substances (DPCS) legislation: the legislation that prohibits the supply etc. of electronic cigarettes and the like. This legislation is sometimes referred to as the "Poisons Act".

    I would suggest that you refer to a sheet on this subject that is published on our website ('Electronic cigarettes containing nicotine are prohibited in Victoria' retrieved from the health.vic.gov.au document library), which also references a TGA statement on the various safety concerns. If you wish to understand the legislative framework around the control of these preparations, I would suggest that you refer to the DPCS Act 1981 and Regulations 2006 (available at Victorian Legislation and Parliamentary Documents), and the Standard for the Uniform Scheduling of Medicines and Poisons (SUSMP), which is available via a link on the right-hand side of our website's homepage (Drugs and poisons controls in Victoria - Victorian Government Health Information, Australia), and the Poisons Code, which is viewable via a tab on the left-hand side of the homepage.

    Yours faithfully,
    to Ely.Finch
    I had a read. Is nicotine not a schedule 7 unregulated poison?

    Thanks

    I anticipate your reply
    Ely.Finch@health.vic.gov.au

    2:24 PM (15 minutes ago)

    to me
    No, in the preparations concerned, nicotine is a Listed Regulated Schedule 7 poison.


    Mr Ely Finch
    Drugs and Poisons Field Officer
    Drugs and Poisons Regulation Unit
    Victorian Department of Health | 50 Lonsdale Street, Melbourne, Victoria, 3000.
    p. 03 9096 0331 | f. 1300 360 830 | m. 0439 373 174
    e. ely.finch@health.vic.gov.au


    short version:

    Quote Originally Posted by poppymiffy View Post
    Just so it is quite straight forward for people. This is the actual legislation in Victoria. See Section 65.......

    http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/Domino/Web_Notes/LDMS/LTObject_Store/ltobjst8.nsf/DDE300B846EED9C7CA257616000A3571/04061E004238763ECA257BD50001481F/$FILE/06-57sra013%20authorised.pdf

    PART 5—SCHEDULE 7 POISONS
    65 Controls concerning listed regulated poisons
    A person must not manufacture, sell, supply,
    purchase or otherwise obtain, possess or use a
    listed regulated poison unless the person is
    authorised, licensed or permitted under the Act or
    these Regulations to do so.
    Penalty: 100 penalty units.

    Edit, sorry it is not coming up as a link, but just copy it into your browser if you want to see it in full.
    Last edited by DogMan; 27-03-14 at 02:40 PM.
    GirlyPantz, margyb, spud and 1 others like this.
    "Vapers- The evangelical vegans of the smoking community"
    Quote Originally Posted by btobw View Post
    1 vote for DogMan because squonkers, dogs, chooks and brevity

  2. #2
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    great...lol thats encouraging saving my life has become illegal??
    GirlyPantz, spud and Mathy like this.

  3. #3
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    Yikes. I dread to think of the outcome if the Victorian Government actually tries to clarify its laws. You can bet your bottom dollar it won't be in our favour.
    GirlyPantz, margyb, spud and 2 others like this.

  4. #4
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    Which is a full circle is it not? I thought the 'out' was that reputable suppliers are not promoting PVs and their use as a smoking cessation product, and they are a recreational consumer product?

    The TGA link confirms that C'Wealth Law has not over riden State/Territory Law in this instance

    What are electronic cigarettes?

    Electronic cigarettes, also known as e-cigarettes, electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS) or e-cigs, are devices for making mists for inhalation, that usually simulate the act of cigarette smoking. Electronic cigarettes are sometimes marketed as an option to help people quit smoking, or as a tobacco replacement.

    Unlike Nicotine Replacement Therapy (NRT) products, which have been rigorously assessed for efficacy and safety and, therefore, approved by the Therapeutic Goods Administration for use as aids in withdrawal from smoking, no assessment of electronic cigarettes has been undertaken and, therefore, the quality and safety of electronic cigarettes is not known.

    The Australian Government is concerned about the use of electronic cigarettes in Australia. The impact of wide scale use of these devices on tobacco use is not known, and the outcome in the community could be harmful.

    Supplying and importing electronic cigarettes

    If you are considering supplying and promoting electronic cigarettes, you need to know the following information:

    Products claiming to help people quit smoking are therapeutic goods
    The importation and supply (including sale) of therapeutic goods is illegal in Australia unless authorised by the TGA.
    Nicotine is classified by law as a dangerous poison. States and territories have responsibility for regulating dangerous poisons. In all states and territories, the retail sale of nicotine is an offence unless a permit has been issued by the relevant state or territory authority. In some states and territories, obtaining, purchasing, possession and/or using nicotine without a permit is an offence. In most jurisdictions there are similar controls on manufacturing (including mixing), storage, labelling and packaging and other aspects of dangerous poisons. For details, contact the relevant state or territory health agency. These state and territory laws have not been overridden by Commonwealth legislation
    Some states and territories have legislation prohibiting the marketing of products that resemble tobacco products
    Electronic cigarettes have not been evaluated for quality, safety or performance by the TGA.
    If you wish to import or supply electronic cigarettes as an aid to reducing dependence on nicotine, (e.g. as a therapeutic good) then you will need to become a sponsor and make an application to the TGA. Your application will need to include evidence of the beneficial effects of electronic cigarettes. The TGA recommends seeking the advice of a regulatory affairs consultant in this situation.

    The dangers of buying electronic cigarettes

    Some overseas studies suggest that electronic cigarettes containing nicotine may be dangerous, delivering unreliable doses of nicotine (above or below the stated quantity), or containing toxic chemicals or carcinogens, or leaking nicotine. Leaked nicotine is a poisoning hazard for the user of electronic cigarettes, as well as others around them, particularly children. Dangerous and lethal doses of nicotine can be absorbed through the skin. Electronic cigarettes containing substances other than nicotine have not been assessed for safety.

    Importing unregistered products is illegal. Consumers may inadvertently break the law, waste their money or risk their health when buying unregistered products online. These unregistered products may be:

    fake (counterfeit)
    contaminated or not manufactured to appropriate standards;
    contain undisclosed, dangerous ingredients;
    past their use-by date;
    too strong or too weak.
    If you are worried about a medicine or medical device, and want to report the problem, please complete an online reporting form.
    Hmmmm, cheers Deb

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathy View Post
    In some states and territories, obtaining, purchasing, possession and/or using nicotine without a permit is an offence

    in vic apparently it is
    "Vapers- The evangelical vegans of the smoking community"
    Quote Originally Posted by btobw View Post
    1 vote for DogMan because squonkers, dogs, chooks and brevity

  6. #6
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    Maybe best not to worry about it?
    Quote Originally Posted by DogMan View Post
    in vic apparently it is
    spud likes this.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathy View Post
    Maybe best not to worry about it?
    i'm not really, but i was curious to get official confirmation after events up north, and promised the fat bloke i'd post the response here

    the second part of the attachment is the interesting bit, but idk how to quote from a pdf
    GirlyPantz and Mathy like this.
    "Vapers- The evangelical vegans of the smoking community"
    Quote Originally Posted by btobw View Post
    1 vote for DogMan because squonkers, dogs, chooks and brevity

  8. #8
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    Queensland as well. And here I was under the impression that Victoria was easier in their regulations on this than good old Qld......




    What I want to see written on my tombstone is "This is the future home of Ron........".

  9. #9
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    so wat happens if i get caught with a kayfun full of 12mg juice?
    GirlyPantz and DogMan like this.

  10. #10
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    That's what I meant about 'full circle', this document appeared in another thread on this issue, prolly the one that got you thinking about it lol
    Quote Originally Posted by DogMan View Post
    i'm not really, but i was curious to get official confirmation after events up north, and promised the fat bloke i'd post the response here

    the second part of the attachment is the interesting bit, but idk how to quote from a pdf

 

 
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