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Thread: Huffingtonponst liquid......

  1. #1
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    Huffingtonponst liquid......

    Liquid Death From E-Cigarettes? You've Got a Long Way to Go, Baby*|*Dr. Amy Fairchild
    "The latest volley in the furor over electronic cigarettes -- products that heat liquid nicotine rather than burn leaf tobacco -- is the new alarming data about poisoning. The National Poison Data System found that in 2013 there were 1,351 cases of poisoning from liquid nicotine. This is up 300-percent from last year, and the figures are predicted to double by next year. From The New York Times to Fox News to Forbes, there is a growing chorus of panic. According to the latter, now we know "the real risk" of e-cigarettes.

    Not quite. The real issue is exposures compared with what?

    According to the National Poison Data System, analgesics were the most common cause of exposures, with 322,016 in 2012, and cosmetics and personal care products came in second, with 218,269 exposures in 2012 (and amongst kids under 5, exposures caused by cosmetics and personal care product exposures is number one, with 162,2800 exposures in 2012)."
    Last edited by davebrown; 31-03-14 at 03:30 AM.

  2. #2
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    Exactly,

    This is how Simeon Chapmen gets publicly pwned:





    https://twitter.com/GregTHR/status/450387230964862976

    The thing is, those who respond to his tweet are most likely blocked, and so Simeon remains in his own little echo chamber of bullshit.

    What's more is that eliquid poisonings arent even tobacco control related. He knows his side of the debate is completely stupid, so he's resorting to trying to get vapour products outlawed and de-facto banned by non-tobacco control methods.
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  3. #3
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    The Huff Post article was quite a well balanced point of view, for example:

    We also need to ask ourselves why we don't talk about other exposures with the same sense of alarm. The National Poison Data System report for 2012 suggests that if we want to fly into a frenzy based on incendiary data, e-cigarettes need to get in line. We would prevent more harm by launching a cosmetics-free campaign. After all, there is no great public health benefit to wearing makeup or coiffing our hair. Would there be anything lost if we banned energy drinks, which are often high in calories? We could fight poisoning and the obesity epidemic in one stroke.

    If they were a purely recreational product with no potential public health benefit, we would set the bar for poisonings much lower. A child's death is never just a statistic. But we have the potential to lose a great many current and future smokers if we take a zero-tolerance approach to these products. Some 400,000 Americans die each year from smoking-related causes. A billion deaths are predicted worldwide this century if the prevalence of smoking is not reduced.
    SC is never going to be 'beaten' in the Twittersphere, he needs to be demolished elsewhere, for example, great idea for O/S vapers to start having a crack

    Professor Simon Chapman Making things up
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  4. #4
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    he gets around doesn't he. it occurred to me what another poster in the uk said about how you interpret the statistics. so if you believe 80% of vapers dual use, then that's a whopping 20% who have quit smoking which is massive compared to NRTs

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    Quote Originally Posted by mavinry4 View Post
    Exactly,

    This is how Simeon Chapmen gets publicly pwned:

    Just advocating for the devil here so don't jump on me, but you can't compare ecig poisonings to caffeine poisonings without considering the number of users and availability of caffeine products compared to ecig products.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenJ View Post
    Just advocating for the devil here so don't jump on me, but you can't compare ecig poisonings to caffeine poisonings without considering the number of users and availability of caffeine products compared to ecig products.
    Fair Call. We don't really know how many refillbale ecig users there are in the US, but its certainly to be less than that of caffeine consumers. The poisons:users ratio could very much be lower for caffeine, but the other stats regarding alcohol, cleaning products, and cosmetics seem extroadinarily high.

    The main point though is that other common household chemicals, including the ones we put in our mouths and on our skin, can present poisoning hazards like nicotine. But we can take steps via labelling, packaging, and bottle-capping standards.

    The difference is that there is an urgency here. Turning smokers into non-smokers should be first priority, and our argument is that vaping is the easiest and quickest way to do that. Steps should be taken to make that happen safely, but regulations that jeopadise the first priority should be avoided.
    Last edited by mavinry4; 31-03-14 at 11:21 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mavinry4 View Post
    The difference is that there is an urgency here. Turning smokers into non-smokers should be first priority, and our argument is that vaping is the easiest and quicket way to do that. Steps should be taken to make that happen safely, but regulations that jeopadise the first priority should be avoided.
    I completely agree with you!

    The focus should be on making liquid nicotine use as safe as possible, mainly through educating users....clear and comprehensive warning about safe usage would be a good start. That's where their focus should be.

    I do worry about new people diving into ecigs without realising the dangers, especially to small children around.
    GirlyPantz and mavinry4 like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JenJ View Post


    I do worry about new people diving into ecigs without realising the dangers, especially to small children around.
    PV's/nicotine are no more/less of a danger to small kids than cigarette lighters/backyard pools/ family dogs/ reversing cars in driveways etc.etc. parental supervision with all these things is paramount, can't be banning,regulating ev'rything ... accidents happen!

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    Quote Originally Posted by maggie View Post
    PV's/nicotine are no more/less of a danger to small kids than cigarette lighters/backyard pools/ family dogs/ reversing cars in driveways etc.etc. parental supervision with all these things is paramount, can't be banning,regulating ev'rything ... accidents happen!
    Yeah but everyone knows all those things are risky. It's not immediately obvious that the liquid in the clearomiser you just picked up at the local market is enough to put your toddler in hospital. If people are fully aware of that, then whatever happens later is their responsibility.

    And I'm not advocating banning/regulating, I'm saying get the information out there loud and clear.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenJ View Post
    Yeah but everyone knows all those things are risky. It's not immediately obvious that the liquid in the clearomiser you just picked up at the local market is enough to put your toddler in hospital. If people are fully aware of that, then whatever happens later is their responsibility.
    That's the aim of public education: To make the public aware of the nicotine liquids, and have nicotine liquids ubitiquous enough to the point that it's common sense to keep kids and pets away from them. Thank You both for bring this topic up.

    In my opinion, this is what Simon Chapman should be doing. Informaing the public about the best ways to keep your family safe, he should be discussing child-proof capping, labelling and education policies, not throwing it up as a warning that is practically conveying "stay away, everyone stay away". In essence he is treating the adults like the children who the adults are trying to keep safe.

    If there wasn't such an urgency, it'd be entertaining Nanny State debate. But 15,000 Australians die every year from smoking related diseases. So far, that puts the toll at 60-70,000 lives that could potentially have been saved had the ban not kicked in a few years ago.
    Last edited by mavinry4; 01-04-14 at 12:01 AM.
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