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Thread: Vaping and the loss of tobacco taxes in the EU

  1. #1
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    Vaping and the loss of tobacco taxes in the EU

    Most of us know that governments are fearful about losing the tax revenue they fleece from smokers, and most of us know that in this country that revenue is not spent on health costs, but goes into general revenue, with Hockey admitting that these excessive sin taxes will be used to get the economy into surplus. We all know that governments put money before lives, so this article is nothing new.

    Politicians Fear E-Cigarettes Threaten Tax Revenue, Call for Restrictions

    However, I would like to look at some positive ways in which we could put the case for making e-cigs and nicotine ejuice freely available in Australia, that would soften the blow economically.

    1. If the vaping industry was allowed to flourish in Australia, this would create a huge opportunity for small businesses, who form the largest employer group in this country, (its not the big corporations that employ the most people as we are conned into thinking), the new jobs created would ease unemployment, and we would have people paying income tax, rather than receiving unemployment benefits. A win for the government, and a win for both the businesses and their employees. I know of no unemployed person that doesn't want to work. The more people in employment, the more people have money to spend on things other than the bare necessities of life, so other businesses and the economy benefit as well.

    2. The sales of e-cigs and juice would likely soar if they were legally and freely available, which means that each sale would garner a GST tax component, and the money from the sales would remain in Australia, rather than be funnelled overseas because of the need for vapers to purchase OS.

    Those are just a couple of points, anyone else have any more positive points they could add????
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    STOPPED SMOKING 11/08/13 STARTED VAPING 11/08/13

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    The skeptic in me thinks you need a quick fix case. In my opinion any government is only concerned about its current term.
    Colouring My World with Elegance
    Started Vaping 13th October, 2011

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    Umm. How about this:

    According to all publicity, smokers will likely eventually fall to smoking related illnesses . Each smoker who converts to vaping reduces/stops their chance of falling to those smoking related illnesses. That is a reduced cost to themselves, their healthfunds and the economy. Remember too, of those who suffer serious illness, some are without (or on reduced) income whilst ill, meaning they have less funds available for spending. That then results in them spending less, which drives lower shop turnover, shop staff levels, GST, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crisscross View Post
    The skeptic in me thinks you need a quick fix case. In my opinion any government is only concerned about its current term.
    I don't think that allowing businesses to sell nic juice would be a slow process, it would only take a few regulations in regards to manufacture, most of which could be borrowed from the food and beverage industry, along with age restriction and labelling, (warnings etc), and things like child proof caps etc. Most of which vendors already comply with even though they are selling no nic juices.

    This could be an enormous boost to employment, and with job losses very high atm, I don't know that a government would be too hard to convince if it means a political + for them.

    This could happen very quickly, but it would take a definite decision from the government, and atm there is a huge lack of any sort of leadership, and the focus is on cutting expenditure by any means, rather than seeking to increase revenue by sustainable and positive means.
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    STOPPED SMOKING 11/08/13 STARTED VAPING 11/08/13

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveJ View Post
    Umm. How about this:

    According to all publicity, smokers will likely eventually fall to smoking related illnesses . Each smoker who converts to vaping reduces/stops their chance of falling to those smoking related illnesses. That is a reduced cost to themselves, their healthfunds and the economy. Remember too, of those who suffer serious illness, some are without (or on reduced) income whilst ill, meaning they have less funds available for spending. That then results in them spending less, which drives lower shop turnover, shop staff levels, GST, etc.
    Yep, good for the economy, and more importantly good for the smoker
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    STOPPED SMOKING 11/08/13 STARTED VAPING 11/08/13

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    Yeah, and a few extra thoughts:

    Elsewhere, in a thread about a discussion with a local chemist, there were strong indications that some "small shops" (chemists and delis were quoted) were all but "ready to go" in selling PV stuff. Certainly, we alrady have that occurring in local markets, for example.

    We currently have little general knowledge within the general public about nicotine and PVs. The general public still thinks "nicotine" equals "bad", rather than the more accurate "smoking" equals "bad".

    And, of course, the third part of the equasion - the stupid nic ban laws within Australia.

    I think, if
    a) the stupid nic law was repealed
    b) The general public received basic education that smoking is not equal to vaping, and that nic/vaping is not equal to bad. That is, to "normalise" PVs within the general community, then

    I think we would see an explosion of PVs and related supplies (nic, juice, hardware, etc) in Australia. Which, of course, means lots of sellers (meaning GST tax), lots of Vapers (better health, less illness, more spending money), perhaps a new generation of local tobacco/nic growers/manufacturing, certainly in increase in local juice makers, plus whatever else arises from a general upturn in one sector of the economy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveJ View Post
    Yeah, and a few extra thoughts:

    Elsewhere, in a thread about a discussion with a local chemist, there were strong indications that some "small shops" (chemists and delis were quoted) were all but "ready to go" in selling PV stuff. Certainly, we alrady have that occurring in local markets, for example.

    We currently have little general knowledge within the general public about nicotine and PVs. The general public still thinks "nicotine" equals "bad", rather than the more accurate "smoking" equals "bad".

    And, of course, the third part of the equasion - the stupid nic ban laws within Australia.

    I think, if
    a) the stupid nic law was repealed
    b) The general public received basic education that smoking is not equal to vaping, and that nic/vaping is not equal to bad. That is, to "normalise" PVs within the general community, then

    I think we would see an explosion of PVs and related supplies (nic, juice, hardware, etc) in Australia. Which, of course, means lots of sellers (meaning GST tax), lots of Vapers (better health, less illness, more spending money), perhaps a new generation of local tobacco/nic growers/manufacturing, certainly in increase in local juice makers, plus whatever else arises from a general upturn in one sector of the economy.
    I agree, and education could come from places like chemists shops, and specialty vape stores. If vaping became more popular than smoking, (which given the restrictions on smoking, and adverse health effects, is entirely within the realms of possibility), then education would be very swift, and reach a saturation point very quickly. I look at other technologies and see that this is certainly the case. Australia is well known for having a population that is accepting of new technology, and for being early adopters of new technologies. Vaping has stalled not because people would not accept it, but because of ANTZ interference, and government short sightedness, greed, and stupid laws.

    I honestly believe that if these stupid laws were changed, the uptake would be very swift. One of the things about having a relatively small population is that word of mouth spreads quickly.
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    STOPPED SMOKING 11/08/13 STARTED VAPING 11/08/13

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    Quote Originally Posted by spud View Post
    I agree, and education could come from places like chemists shops, and specialty vape stores.
    We already have the means to quickly and efficiently deliver that education. The "Quit" campaign which floods our TVs/media with their message. Who is not aware of the "lung" being wrung out of all the "cancer causing tar" advert?

    A revision/correction of public policy, rework a few adds and we can easily have mass market information delivered from, well, as soon as an advertising company exec signs the deal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveJ View Post
    We already have the means to quickly and efficiently deliver that education. The "Quit" campaign which floods our TVs/media with their message. Who is not aware of the "lung" being wrung out of all the "cancer causing tar" advert?

    A revision/correction of public policy, rework a few adds and we can easily have mass market information delivered from, well, as soon as an advertising company exec signs the deal.
    Be interesting to see if the government would allow advertising for e-cigs, I think though that it would be a step too far in the current climate. Though with greater uptake of vaping, sales of juice and pvs, and greater revenue, that stance could change, but I think that would come after vaping has a strong foothold, and people see that smoking is becoming far less popular.

    I think the main education vehicles will be online, and from B&M stores to begin with.
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    STOPPED SMOKING 11/08/13 STARTED VAPING 11/08/13

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    Quote Originally Posted by spud View Post
    I think the main education vehicles will be online, and from B&M stores to begin with.
    Realistically, I think you are right.

    It will not be easy for Government to REVERSE their stand, publicly admitting they were wrong. It'll really stick in their craw that they ought to advertise the fact too!
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