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Thread: Update Thread for HeavenlyVapours Appeal

  1. #1
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    Update Thread for HeavenlyVapours Appeal

    Hi everyone,

    First off please let me apologise for not posting sooner to address the various concerns that some have raised over the last couple of days.

    I'm going to start by giving an update on the fund objectives.

    The immediate goal is to gain enough funding to pay for high quality QC consultation on how to best appeal the supreme court ruling, to determine the legal strategy and how to best invest the funds we have to gain the maximum return.

    I have successfully engaged one QC so far who is looking over the case to provide advice on how to best proceed. It is not yet clear how much support will be provided but at the very least an amazing legal mind is looking over the issue and who knows how much support will be provided ultimately. Depending on how this goes the amount of funding required may be less than some imagine is necessary.

    Next Tuesday I have a meeting scheduled with my current legal representation and will be able to provide some more information following that meeting. My lawyer is currently making contact with various QC's to determine who has the best skill set to fight this for maximum results.

    I in the mean time am reaching out to as many other QC's as possible to see if any would be willing to take the case on based on the human interest angle of saving lives and reducing harm to Australians.

    In regards to how the funds are going to be used more generally I have this to say.

    As far as my own current legal costs go, the money I have spent to date is approximately $20,000. This I am absorbing. None of the money donated will go to recompensing me for my current out of pocket expenses. The money required for the appeal though can only come from new sources (the donations). I have nothing left personally to contribute and everyone needs to understand that if an appeal is lodged and is subsequently unsuccessful there will be significant costs involved. There will potentially be the costs of representation for myself (if no one offers a pro bono solution) additionally I will then be liable for the prosecutions costs. I cannot fund this myself, not without losing everything I have. So the funds will be used for these costs if required.

    If over the course of the appeal more funds are generated than are required the balance will be used to offset my former costs. If there are still excess funds available after this, the money will be used to assist the community. I don't yet know how that would best be done; a lot of research will need to be done to determine that and I would like eventually to open a poll to all donors to democratically determine where the funds go (once all options are identified).

    I would like people to understand that I work a full time job and currently any spare time I have is being spent seeking media interviews, legal consultation, vendor support, PR campaigns and a few other things I can't currently discuss. I realise that it is my failing to all of you in not posting more frequent and transparent updates to keep you all informed of the developments that are occurring and for that I apologise without reservation.


    I will endeavour to update the thread daily to keep people posted of new developments and progress. I only have custody of my son on Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays as such on these days Dan will post an update in my absence. There may be a day here and there where this is not possible for whatever reason but by and large every effort will be made to achieve this. This new thread is intended to not be an open thread for everyone to jump on and post questions and thoughts or pictures of random stuff; it is purely to keep a concise journal of actions taken and underway etc. Discussion of the content should occur here in THIS EXISTING THREAD. I don't want the important information lost in a sea of everything else. I hope people can respect and understand why I request this.

    Some people have suggested that HeavenlyVapours engaged in illegal behaviour that brought this attention onto us. We did not break the law, if we had we would have been prosecuted for this.

    There are also other things going on that I would love to tell you all about but again for commercial reasons (not our own) and to avoid giving the "Health" Department an inside edge we currently are unable to discuss. I will say this though, some significant funds should be heading our way in the not distant future

    I want to again reiterate how sorry I am for not posting more information in recent days but in all honesty there have been far bigger things going on that required more time and attention than I had. On a positive note though these things appear to be beginning to bare fruit.

    I want everyone to know that I take every single donation as a personal pledge and commitment to fight. I have a moral and ethical commitment to each and every donor to do everything humanly possible to stand up and fight for this cause. I will fight with everything I have and I honestly believe we can win. Please remember though that a HUGE part of this is the public campaign. We need to do everything we can to make this a part of the public dialogue. With enough attention no one can deny the truth we speak and no one can stand in the way of our right to choice. We will effect change if we stand together, the infighting needs to stop. We don't all have to agree but we do need to stop sabotaging the cause. If anyone wants to pursue another avenue of activism, PLEASE do so! But don't do it in this thread we have momentum, please don’t derail it. I honestly feel this is the best hope we have.

    Thanks to anyone who managed to read through this wall of text to the end.

    Sincerely,

    Vince
    Last edited by HeavenlyVapours_Vince; 18-04-14 at 04:30 AM.
    Noe, margyb, Old Dog and 27 others like this.

  2. #2
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    To Vince: I wish you the best of luck Vince, my stance is that I very much dislike "them" targeting you and using their hollow victory to hurt all W.A. and possibly all Australian vapers moving forward.
    Frankly I wouldn't care if you did use the funds for personal gain, it's not like we haven't ALL been using a loophole to save bucket loads. But I respect that you're not.

    Everyone else: Please don't quote my post and reply if you have an issue with what I've said to Vince, I frankly DGAF. PM it if you must.
    lozza 82, spud, maggie and 6 others like this.

  3. #3
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    Thanks for answering some of the concerns. May I suggest u update the fundme page to reflect the tier of how the funds will be spent.
    And thankyou for not giving up
    margyb, spud, maggie and 2 others like this.
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  4. #4
    Noe
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    Vince, I posted in the other thread but my question/idea has still not been answered.
    If/when you win the case, it is highly likely that you will be awarded costs & thus the $50k target of the crowd funding will be returned, I noted that you stated in the OP of this thread that you would like to return left over funds to the community, which is commendable.
    My idea was that at that point, it would be 50K that could be used to float the VAA & put into trust so that future legal battles could be fought using those funds, members here on both sides of the fence think that is a great idea, is this likely to happen?
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  5. #5
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    Hi Vince,

    I'm from Germany and I see that there is a worldwide action against Vapers and it is very important to stand the ground and fight back, everywhere. There is absolutely not a single reseonable argument why vaping, nicotine or any equipment should be banned. Will water be banned because it looks like Vodka? No one needs a Nanny Staate nor a WHO-Taliban. Today it's vaping, tomorrow it's shugar, beer, fat or ... you name it!

    Is it impotant for me what happens to australian Vapers? Yes, maybe now you are first but we (Germany/EU) are second!

    I don't no you, but it seems that you are chosen to fight - I trust you, I donated and I'll do again if necessary.


    PS. Sorry for spelling and grammar, but out of school since 40 years.
    margyb, Old Dog, lozza 82 and 15 others like this.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakeme View Post
    Hi Vince,

    I'm from Germany and I see that there is a worldwide action against Vapers and it is very important to stand the ground and fight back, everywhere. There is absolutely not a single reseonable argument why vaping, nicotine or any equipment should be banned. Will water be banned because it looks like Vodka? No one needs a Nanny Staate nor a WHO-Taliban. Today it's vaping, tomorrow it's shugar, beer, fat or ... you name it!

    Is it impotant for me what happens to australian Vapers? Yes, maybe now you are first but we (Germany/EU) are second!

    I don't no you, but it seems that you are chosen to fight - I trust you, I donated and I'll do again if necessary.


    PS. Sorry for spelling and grammar, but out of school since 40 years.
    Thank you so much for your support!

    It is great to hear from you guys across the world, and know that we are not alone in this tiny little backwater (Perth, WA), and I for one really appreciate you taking the time to post some encouragement here, and your generosity.
    lozza 82, Cath Mort, spud and 4 others like this.

  7. #7
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    PLEASE PLACE YOUR VOTE, READ THE SURVEY

    Vince, I'm supporting you in this all the way. In response to your post #1 Update Thread for HeavenlyVapours Appeal

    "We need to do everything we can to make this a part of the public dialogue."
    "If anyone wants to pursue another avenue of activism, PLEASE do so!"

    I have just finished publishing a survey on Facebook the question what is at the heart of this debate. The objectives of our States Tobacco Acts.

    Please can people voice there opinion by placing their vote. Please also spread this survey to everyone you can. We need to aim to capture the opinion of society as a whole if we are to expect the government to take such a poll seriously. Please please please can people place their vote so that we please use the results of this survey as an additional tool in our defence. And if others can please assist in reposting the link on this forum so that it does not get lost and other members can see it.

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Perso...27709503932081



    The survey question itself is copied in below:


    Should the sale of personal vaporizers (aka electronic cigarettes) be banned?

    The Supreme Court of Western Australia has used the Tobacco Products and Control Act to ban the retail of personal vaporizers (aka electronic cigarettes) within the state. The wording of corresponding acts across each state of Australia is similar, and therefore there is strong potential for this ruling to set precedent for Australia nationwide.


    Purpose of the Western Australia ‘Tobacco Products Control Act’ 2006
    The purposes of this Act are —

    To reduce the incidence of illness and death related to the use of tobacco products —
    - by prohibiting the supply of tobacco products and smoking implements to young persons;
    - by discouraging the use of tobacco products;
    - by restricting the promotion of tobacco products and smoking generally;
    - by reducing the exposure of people to tobacco smoke from tobacco products that are smoked by other people;
    - and to promote good health and activities which encourage healthy lifestyles.


    The Supreme Court have governed that the vapour exhaled through the act of using a personal vaporizer coupled with the hand to mouth action involved has the potential to encourage non-smokers to begin smoking tobacco related products. It is therefore their decision that personal vaporizers be banned in order to best serve the objective of the act.

    It is the opinion of the vaping community (those that currently use personal vaporizers), and many others, that the health benefits brought about by those who were previously addicted to tobacco cigarettes being able to use personal vaporizers as an alternative to smoking tobacco cigarettes far outweighs the argument in paragraph one and best serves the object of the act.

    I, as a member of the public, and therefore that which the act is designed to serve, am of the opinion that:

    A – The health benefits of allowing the retail and use of personal vaporizers outweighs the alleged disadvantages that it could encourage members of the public to begin smoking tobacco cigarettes. I VOTE THAT PERSONAL VAPORIZERS REMAIN LEGAL TO BUY, SELL, POSSESS AND USE BY ADULTS OVER THE AGE OF 18.

    B – Believe that the use of personal vaporizers will encourage members of the public to begin smoking tobacco cigarettes in numbers that outweigh the health benefits of those who were previously addicted to tobacco cigarettes being able to use personal vaporizers as an alternative to smoking tobacco cigarettes. I VOTE THAT PERSONAL VAPORIZERS BE CLASSIFIED AS A PROHIBITED ITEM.


    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Perso...27709503932081

  8. #8
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    There is a Change Org petition requesting the WA Health Minister change the law about Personal Vaporisers.

    The link about the petition is here: Link.

    Thanks all.
    Sent by DaveJ

    Sorry, I don't have a witty signature.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noe View Post
    Vince, I posted in the other thread but my question/idea has still not been answered.
    If/when you win the case, it is highly likely that you will be awarded costs & thus the $50k target of the crowd funding will be returned, I noted that you stated in the OP of this thread that you would like to return left over funds to the community, which is commendable.
    My idea was that at that point, it would be 50K that could be used to float the VAA & put into trust so that future legal battles could be fought using those funds, members here on both sides of the fence think that is a great idea, is this likely to happen?
    Just wonderin, would this be the same association that was against vendors havin any say or part of the association. I kinda recall folks screaming blue murder at the suggestion of having vendors as members. Maybe I am wrong (wouldnt be the first time and wont be the last either).

    BUT, if my memory hasnt turned to mush, and this was/is the case, then this would be pretty damn hypocritical. Hey, it could even be described as a "dirty little grab for money", IF vendors were unwelcome in the association.

    So are they welcome to become full members of this association people here are tryin to start?





    Pussa.
    Last edited by Pussa; 18-04-14 at 02:02 PM. Reason: bloody internet connection, nothin stable about it...
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pussa View Post
    Just wonderin, would this be the same association that was against vendors havin any say or part of the association. I kinda recall folks screaming blue murder at the suggestion of having vendors as members. Maybe I am wrong (wouldnt be the first time and wont be the last either).

    So are they welcome to become full members of this association people here are tryin to start?





    Pussa.
    I always felt vendors should be allowed to join an perhaps have a vendor membership as long as there were safeguards against them taking over the committee.

    what about if we draft a flyer and ask all and any vendors to include it with orders sent out, and it could have the address of the gofundme campaign and the petition etc to get vapers on board that dont come here.
    YoGI and Browny like this.

 

 
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