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Thread: Vaping's survival as it stands. It is a long read but please take a little time

  1. #1
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    Vaping's survival as it stands. It is a long read but please take a little time

    I made a post on Reddit regarding vaping's survival as a culture and as it exists now. The bans in WA show what could happen to all of us. We are in a little bit of a bubble being Australian and with most of the uneasiness being felt in America but this ban shows what happens if we're complacent. Yes, this is a lot of text but please take the time to read it.

    Here is the post I wrote on Reddit, copied. Some people don't like the site;

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Let me preface by saying I'm quite new to the community. I joined it when this political and societal turmoil regarding vaping is perhaps at it's highest. I don't mean any offence to anyone with good intentions of the community or the people who have put so much work and sacrifice into building the communities that exist as they are now.

    I'm a person who likes to eliminate every single risk. This leads to me being sometimes a bit too safe and missing opportunities that may have been there for me to advance myself because I either don't recognise it or don't let it occur at all just because of my own actions. I know for a fact some people will look down on this as stupid, paranoid as immature and I'm fine with that. I have my own personal reasons for being the way I am but if you disagree, please say so. I can understand how someone may view this post as going too far or being paranoid but that is just how I live my life. If you disagree, please, please, tell me why and what I should be thinking instead. Already, just within this community, I have had people change my attitude to some personal ideals that I thought were concrete and immovable.

    I believe vaping is one of the most important health innovations for a long time. Smoking causes so many of the leading causes of death. Anyone knows how hard it is to quit smoking, the patches don't work, neither do the sprays or the gum and you just go back. You hear so many of these stories and then you hear of how they just dropped cigarettes after starting to vape and how they have an incredibly increased quality of life. Call me a dreamer but I hope that one day that everyone can be on equal footing, whether I can make a difference or not.

    Vaping as it stands now is in danger. Government is moving in and people are uneasy about what that could mean. This is concerning as people would only even consider such a premise if government have failed the people over and over. You can even go so far as to say it's something sinister, an average smoker costs less in healthcare but are still part of the workforce the whole way, I'm sure you know smokers that are the most driven and intelligent people that have smoking as their only vice. Why would the government ever want to lose some of their most efficient and disposable workforce? As I said, that may be reading a bit too far and being unnecessarily paranoid.

    Here are some of the posts I have made, of course, they are on Reddit and so opinions are always strong and people "follow the flow" as much as they try to deny it.

    Here are some of my posts;
    • Post made on /r/AdviceAnimals; I think this is the most important because it shows what Reddit as a whole - and so perhaps the opinion of the the larger general population, think about vaping.
    • A post about an option to get vaping normalised; I think this is somewhat important. We really do need more people talking about the GOOD of vaping, whether it comes from something we consider immoral or not is something we'll have to look over for now.

    Posts that were made here (/r/electronic_cigarette);

    For vaping to survive then we need to use entities with public influence, as ominous as that may sound. Celebrities and media are what the general population follow. Just think of how Jenny McCarthy convinced so many many parents to ignore the health of their own child, throwing common sense and reasoning out the window. This time, we're on the side with the proper facts. Imagine that with widespread influence. We need to make sure that these people know how things stand. There's no point sitting here debating without actually taking action. We're just being exactly the same as the people Reddit complains about, armchair activists.

    I genuinely believe that vaping changed my life. I hate receiving something that I didn't work for - birthday gifts, Christmas gifts, even just general kindness, and so I believe that I owe the vaping community everything. Health, time and quality of life is not something you can put a value on.

    I've had my view change from a few discussions with members here and realised that all is not at all hopeless, and that for me to say that a specific conclusion is inevitable means I am just as bad as those who oppose it, I become a hypocrite.

    I can say without a doubt that I am doing everything I can, I know that I can't reach that many people but I know no matter what I do, I can't repay the community.

    I talk about myself because this is my story, there are other stories of the Youtube reviewers, the pioneers of mods and juice mixing, the stories of "paying it forward" and vendors going out of their way. It would be a such a disappointment and waste for all this effort to be for nothing.

    So please, be careful, and genuinely do as much as you can. Our future depends on it.
    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Reddit post if you have something to say there. It is a self post so no "karma" can be gained, this isn't for some kind of internet points.

    I'm unsure as to whether my thoughts and opinions apply more or less to us. On one hand, it isn't a big issue yet. On the other, perhaps we should be doing as much as we can to prevent it from becoming an issue. If we are complacent, we may have more repeats of what happened with WA.

    Please tell me if I'm wrong about how I perceive the situation. I want to learn as much as possible.
    Last edited by jswkim; 19-04-14 at 02:21 AM.

  2. #2
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    Gee, it's late and I'm feeling a little cranky. I looked at your post.

    Oh! It's post #3, there must be something enlightening here.

    I see lots of "I"s - bad news.

    I see 'please tell me if I'm wrong .. " - bad news.

    I then read it, there is nothing there that I don't already know or haven't already read.

    You are not the Messiah of vaping, sorry if you don't like my response.
    jswkim likes this.

  3. #3
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    Yeah, sorry if it seemed that way. People seem to take something more "doomsdayey" more seriously. "Please tell me if I'm wrong", etc, etc was more to cover my ass really, people on Reddit will pick holes into anything. Most vapers seem to know the issues surrounding it but there's more and more new people coming in everyday who aren't as educated.

    It depends, how much it really means to society and how big we expect vaping to become. Smoking cessation industries are worth billions. That could be vaping, with all the pros and cons that come out of that much money. This post is definitely pessimistic and so makes out the worst of everything. It doesn't ever hurt to be too safe, more damage is always done by not doing so. I guess I'm being selfish by using this as a chance to educate myself as well...

    Thanks for telling me what you think.
    spud, maggie and susie canasta like this.

  4. #4
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    Geez Mathy, that's a bit rough.

    jswkim, thanks for all the effort you've put in so far.

  5. #5
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    Hey there, I did say I was cranky, and unfortunately, the relevant thread on this forum has been removed, which doesn't help matters. But really, none of us are going to change the world today, best just to have a read of the forums and settle in

    Quote Originally Posted by jswkim View Post
    Yeah, sorry if it seemed that way. People seem to take something more "doomsdayey" more seriously. "Please tell me if I'm wrong", etc, etc was more to cover my ass really, people on Reddit will pick holes into anything. Most vapers seem to know the issues surrounding it but there's more and more new people coming in everyday who aren't as educated.

    It depends, how much it really means to society and how big we expect vaping to become. Smoking cessation industries are worth billions. That could be vaping, with all the pros and cons that come out of that much money. This post is definitely pessimistic and so makes out the worst of everything. It doesn't ever hurt to be too safe, more damage is always done by not doing so. I guess I'm being selfish by using this as a chance to educate myself as well...

    Thanks for telling me what you think.
    Old Dog and spud like this.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenJ View Post
    Geez Mathy, that's a bit rough.

    jswkim, thanks for all the effort you've put in so far.
    I did preface it with I was cranky, and we're not in the New Vapers forum (post count was 3) and there is no location specified in his/her profile, so how many regurgitations of the obvious should we read before having a dummy spit? Maybe I should put one of those Robray type warnings in my sig, or shut up
    JenJ likes this.

  7. #7
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    Oh shit, I should really update my location. The first post I made was asking about nic juice and how to get it quickest and people were suspicious of a new account asking for nic juice.

    Gonna do it now, hahaha.
    spud and susie canasta like this.

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the post. A lot of interesting ideas there.

    These are just some of my opinions so far and I've only been vaping 100% for just over two weeks.

    To "normalize" it would be ideal but not likely for the foreseeable future. Regular smokers think we're weird so non smokers think we're ever weirder than regular smokers.
    Will it overtake smoking tobacco? IMO Maybe and that's a big maybe. Vaping isn't right for every smoker. I've known a lot of people that can't even be bothered keeping their mobile phone charged...
    ... These same people would really struggle getting the logistics done so they can actually Vape regularly.
    Younger people are more open to it than die hard older people like me. I really don't get this but my older brother who smokes and has since he was 18 wouldn't even try my PV... He's just not interested.

    I'd like to think this could overtake Tobacco and I really hope it does but I don't think it will. It's getting more popular but at some point it will peak and then we'll have some idea of how many people actually switched.
    There are so many success stories here and that's good but we have no idea of how many smokers have tried vaping and gone back to tobacco.

    One final point.. Let's be optimistic about a bright future for vaping. That's always a good thing.
    spud, maggie and oxey like this.
    Peter

    My last cigarette... 3rd April 2014

  9. #9
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    You go jswkim .. These times have us all a bit nervous and your thoughts and feelings are just as relevant as anyone else's .. That's what a forum is all about .. so don't be sorry and thanks for being passionate enough and taking the time to share your views .. a lot of which I agree with.

    And Mathy .. maybe it's just a bit past your bedtime hehehe

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sc_rufctr View Post
    I'd like to think this could overtake Tobacco and I really hope it does but I don't think it will. It's getting more popular but at some point it will peak and then we'll have some idea of how many people actually switched.
    There are so many success stories here and that's good but we have no idea of how many smokers have tried vaping and gone back to tobacco.

    One final point.. Let's be optimistic about a bright future for vaping. That's always a good thing.
    I'm afraid I can't be overly optimistic. The main problem here is smokers are simply cash cows for the government. The less people who smoke, the more they put the prices up. I have always thought they look at how many people are smoking, and have a formula to adjust the price of smokes accordingly.

    If they are that bad for us, then they would have banned them. Pure and simple. Look at the illegal drugs list. Take too much, it will kill you. Get a bad batch, it will kill you. Apart from weed, which doesn't kill you, but is too easy for anyone to grow, so easier to ban it than legalise it, because too many people would grow their own and bypass the government coffers - a bit like vaping (except for the bit where productivity would go way down if everyone were stoned)

    Whereas if you go have a good hard look at the studies carried out for smoking, and see how much they have been skewed to make smoking the bad guy, then you will see that smoking really doesn't kill a huge chunk of the population like they will have us believe. Shock horror!

    They say smoking is the largest killer in Australia. Nope, wrong. The truth is, diseases like heart disease and lung cancer and COPD are the biggest killers in Australia. But smoking causes them right? Nope, wrong, the truth is that any Australian who dies from one of these illnesses - regardless of whether they have ever smoked, or been around anyone that does - gets put down in the statistics as a smoking related death! There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

    The government wants to keep smokers on the smoking/NRT merry go round, because it is in their best interests. They know traditional NRT doesn't work, and smokers will yo-yo back to smoking eventually. Then vaping comes along, and look at all our success stories! And look at the way we all become tutors to the next generation of vapers! It is self propogating and up to now self-regulating. And nobody has died. People actually have been improving their health from it - this just won't do at all! This certainly is going to upset the balance, and I fear they are going to go all out to see vaping buried.

    They have fired the first salvo in court in WA, and this just has to beaten in court. That is what we are up against, and I believe it is achievable. When I was a kid I used to roll up bits of paper on a cold morning and pretend I was smoking, blowing out the vapor. Lets ban paper! I think it has to be addressed why those laws were written in the first place (to stop kids from pretending to smoke by accessing it via lollies and toys etc, thereby normalising it) The fact that some other states legislation actually states this is a good thing. All that would be up to a good QC to bring to the table, as well as other arguments.

    I think they are moving on the DIY market, because they simply can't control it that easily, and it is proven to work for a number of people. Eventually the cigalike market, controlled by BT, will be established. I imagine they are working out the kinks of who will sell these things, and how much they will get taxed at, because if they can turn them into another cash cow like traditonal NRT products, they will. From our own evidence we know they don't work that great, so it is exactly the sort of product they want to promote.

    I really hope I am wrong in my rumination.

    And good on you for posting jswkim. Keep up the good fight, more people need to.
    margyb, Old Dog, lozza 82 and 7 others like this.

 

 
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