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Thread: 15 times the cancer risk

  1. #11
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    What if they're right?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenJ View Post
    What if they're right?
    Right about what though? They used a 2.1 Ohm CE4 clearomiser at 5 volts (actually only 4.8 volts since the iTaste VV v. 3 maxes out at 11 watts). They definitely burned it; this produced formaldehyde hemiacetals, about which not much is known. Both the methodology and the conclusions drawn (or implied) from the results were very suspect.

    Formaldehyde Strikes Again | Fergus OnlineFergus Online
    Last edited by Vapetoomuch; 23-01-15 at 03:36 AM. Reason: Added link.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenJ View Post
    What if they're right?
    They went wrong the very moment they failed to put enough detail into their paper(s) to calculate the wattage (and thus rule out that the eJuice was being burnt).

    Author of eJumica - the eJuice Mixing Calculator.
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  4. #14
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    Conley says the researchers found formaldehyde only when the e-cigarettes were cranked up to their highest voltage levels.

    "If you hold the button on an e-cigarette for 100 seconds, you could potentially produce 100 times more formaldehyde than you would ever get from a cigarette," Conley says. "But no human vaper would ever vape at that condition, because within one second their lungs would be incredibly uncomfortable."

    That's because the vapor would be so hot. Conley compares it to overcooking a steak.

    "I can take a steak and I can cook it on the grill for the next 18 hours, and that steak will be absolutely chock-full of carcinogens," he says. "But the steak will also be charcoal, so no one will eat it."
    E-Cigarettes Can Churn Out High Levels Of Formaldehyde : Shots - Health News : NPR


    So essentially, if you crank up the voltage so that you're basically "smoking" your ecig, (and putting up with dry hits), then you're going to have a bad day.

    If you vape your ecig as normal, you're in the clear.

    Wow. Someone needed a PhD to publish this rubbush in a high impact journal?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenJ View Post
    What if they're right?
    First thing: This wasn't a paper. It is a letter. A paper would have required a higher standard of scientific rigour (but as this is NEJM, maybe not).

    Second thing. the authors are (purposefully?) confusing the statement of risk regarding formaldehyde: It is one of many toxic chemicals present in tobacco smoke. The formaldehyde is very small factor of the overall risk factor of tobacco smoke. 5 - 15% of bugger all is still bugger all. Everyday you inhale micrograms of formaldehyde from your environment., it is also a by-product of some biological processes inside the body.

    Both Clive Bates and Dr Farsalinos have critiqued the letter
    Spreading fear and confusion with misleading formaldehyde studies « The counterfactua
    Update by Dr. Farsalinos: the authors used a top-coil CE4 atomizer and an Innokin VV V3.0
    Verified: formaldehyde levels found in the NEJM study were associated with dry puff conditions. An update

    The authors were burning the crap out of the CE4 I'd not be surprised if the unit's insulators were melted.
    Last edited by dekeonus; 23-01-15 at 07:11 AM. Reason: typos
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  6. #16
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    Just to clarify.

    The authors are not talking about total risk of smoking vs vaping. They are ONLY talking about the formaldehyde risk. This risk is over stated AND out of context in the letter.

    The mortality risk from the aldehydes* are a small fraction of the total risk of smoking even if the aldehyde risk in vaping is 5 - 15% higher than cigarettes the TOTAL risk is still lower.

    But this risk is irrelevant as no vaper would be continually dry hitting.

    * also at issue is that the authors assume formaldehyde hemiacetals are biologically equivalent to gaseous formaldehyde, however they do not provide evidence that this is the case and their entire letter relies on this unproven assumption.
    Last edited by dekeonus; 23-01-15 at 07:26 AM. Reason: new post
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenJ View Post
    What if they're right?
    I think they are right Jen. The point though is mute because they tested under unrealistic conditions. Really this should be a good news story because it proves that when an ecig is used as intended, there is no formaldehyde at all.

    An analogy.
    Olive Oil is considered widely to be a good fat but has a low smoking point compared to other oils.
    Should you heat Olive Oil above it's smoking point it becomes bad, very bad indeed to both ingest and inhale.

  8. #18
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    Sponky and Vaporific like this.
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  9. #19
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    Suckmymod has put this out
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZQQZDavmyw

  10. #20
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    tugboatofdeath likes this.
    amount saved by not smoking: $lots
    amount spent on vaping: $not enough

 

 
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