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Thread: Please help me to respond to this propaganda

  1. #21
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    • E-cigarettes are being aggressively marketed to young people with seductive flavours, colourful imagery, names and
    storylines that tell us they are anything but designed for smoking cessation purposes.

    That would be against the law! Anyone who makes a claim that ecigarettes are beneficial to health or may help you quit smoking is breaking the law because that would require approval from the TGA in Australia. Vendors go out of their way NOT to make such claims.
    How ridiculous!

  2. #22
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    Clive Bates has a pretty good catch-all Q&A here: Arguing about e-cigarettes – a Q&A The counterfactual

    Also: Briefing on vapour products and harm reduction: a briefing for interested policy makers and politicians (PDF) http://www.clivebates.com/documents/vapebriefing.pdf
    Pleski, Fatman, MrGruffy and 1 others like this.

  3. #23
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    If your PH people there actually GaF about smokers, that should be some good food for thought for them.

  4. #24
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  5. #25
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    gtadmin, Fatman and Omega like this.

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  6. #26
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    yeah lots of fact lists - I actually had a BP friend of mine post a concern on my FB. I responded a couple of times then hit home with this:

    More people need to educate around this though, its an important matter and there is, unfortunately, a lot of sensationalism and scaremongering being published (and think of the mice!). as an ex. smoker i feel strongly about it too - but a simple read of both the EPA data for mobile air pollutants (Mobile Source Air Toxics | Overview: Pollutants and Programs | US EPA) to some of the recent testing for ecigs (http://ntr.oxfordjournals.org/.../nt....full.pdf+html) doesnt make them look so terrible after all. Certainly better than smoking, but not as good as nothing at all, and i guess we all know that sucking an exhaust pipe is bad hmmmkay, but we all still drive and walk down the street.
    gtadmin, Vaporific and Omega like this.
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  7. #27
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    • No e-cigarettes are approved by the Therapeutic Goods Administration, so their safety, quality and efficacy are not known.

    Vaping is a vastly reduced risk recreational nicotine product, like fruit is a reduced risk sweet food, it is not a therapeutic, therefore this is irrelevant.

    • It cannot be said that e-cigarettes are ‘safer’ than conventional cigarettes – testing has revealed wide variations in the
    nature and toxicity of contents and emissions. They may be less risky in some ways but may present new risks that remain
    to be properly identified and quantified.


    Cigarette toxicity is due in main part to the thousands of products of combustion and have many known carcinogens. Tests on e-cigarettes reveal orders of magnitude less toxicity, similar to approved pharmaceutical nicotine replacement products. Levels of selected carcinogens and toxicants in vapour from electro... - PubMed - NCBI

    • While research continues, they have not been shown to be effective as a cessation aid.

    No less than the rigorous Cochrane Collaboration round recently that they are indeed useful for cessation. More recent research on more modern e-cigarettes indicates 36 % cessation efficacy in smokers NOT intending to quit, quite a remarkable and unprecendented rate in hardened smokers.
    Success rates with nicotine personal vaporizers: a prospective 6-month pilot study of smokers not intending to quit

    • They are being used to administer other drugs for recreational purposes with as yet poorly identified and unquantified risks
    and harms.


    Glasses are used to administer alcohol as well as fruit juice to children, we do not ban glasses.

    • They have unknown short and long term health effects on smokers and bystanders;

    See above on toxicity.

    • They pose a risk of severe illness to young children if accidentally ingested.

    Rates of accidental poisoning are trivial compared to common items such as medicines and dishwashing tablets.

    • They are likely to undermine attempts to quit smoking, leading to dual use and maintenance of addiction.

    There is no evidence for this. Please provide.

    • Their use undermines smoke free policies that protect bystanders and prompt quitting attempts.

    Rates of smoking continue to decline rapidly in the UK and the US with a very liberal approach to ecigarettes.

    • They have the real potential to ‘renormalise’ the act of smoking, undoing decades of public policy work aimed at reducing
    smoking prevalence.


    Such potential is not being realised anywhere in the world.

    • Tobacco companies are investing heavily in these products but not for the purposes of reducing their business into the
    future.


    The tobacco industry did not invent e-cigarettes, they are playing catch up, and their market share is declining as more effective 2nd and 3rd generation open "vapour" products are increasingly adopted. Open System Vaporizers Officially Overtake E-Cigs, Top $1 Billion in Sales for the First-Time Ever - MarketWatch

    • E-cigarettes are being aggressively marketed to young people with seductive flavours, colourful imagery, names and
    storylines that tell us they are anything but designed for smoking cessation purposes.


    "Regular use of electronic cigarettes amongst children and young people is rare and is
    confined almost entirely to those who currently or have previously smoked." ASH UK October 2014

    • Industry claims about ‘harm reduction’ also ring hollow while the industry continues to produce and promote tobacco
    products.


    As before, the tobacco industry is not the major producer of the most popular and effective e-cigarette products.

    * There are unanswered questions about which harms e-cigarettes might ‘minimise’ and which new harms might arise or
    increase.
    * We are yet to see a clear and authoritative benefit/risk/harm calculus based on good science.
    • Use amongst youth appears to be increasing rapidly; this should alarm us all.
    • It is an offence to manufacture, obtain, possess, sell or supply nicotine cartridges or nicotine e-cigarettes in Tasmania.


    I would ask a question in response: given there are now thousands of smokers in Australia and Tasmania who cannot give up smoking any other way except by using e-cigarettes, do you really want to prosecute these people and essentially force them back to smoking and filling the coffers of the tobacco industry? What is the "clear and authoritative calculus" on forcing e-cigarette users back to smoking? Will you be giving packets of cigarettes to them as you prosecute them, as this will be the effect of such a policy? How will you respond to the inevitable news and current affairs stories on the Government forcing people to smoke?
    Robray, margyb, gtadmin and 12 others like this.

  8. #28
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    See: Taste Your Juice | Is It Safe?
    Plenty of ammunition 'ere
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  9. #29
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    So has the TGA approved cigarettes ?? I am at work and can't check.
    Think about it. The USA eq of our TGA has approved cigs more than likely many years ago .
    But just because they approve of something don't make it 100% safe it's just their tick of approval.
    Vaporific and Davi like this.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olfella View Post
    So has the TGA approved cigarettes ?? I am at work and can't check.
    Think about it. The USA eq of our TGA has approved cigs more than likely many years ago .
    But just because they approve of something don't make it 100% safe it's just their tick of approval.
    Not sure they were around when ciggies became prevalent - after the early 1500's (when it was first transported to western world) they became commercially available in the US in the 1800's - way before any nanny state controls. Its understanding that inaction or incorrect action can cause a terrible thing to happen that is making them even more cautious of future decisions I think.

    edit: they should grandfather in cigarettes to be banned as they are known to be bad, etc. trouble is they did as much as any rational government is going to allow already and subjected them to laws, distribution control and taxes. nothing different to they are now doing with e-cigs until some research can 'prove' safety levels.
    Last edited by vengaman; 10-02-15 at 08:25 AM.
    amount saved by not smoking: $lots
    amount spent on vaping: $not enough

 

 
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