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Thread: NZ ecigarette aymposium - vid and follow up article

  1. #1
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    NZ ecigarette aymposium - vid and follow up article

    Symposium 12/3/152

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oji-KraABx4

    Follow up

    Minister says more evidence needed on e-cigarettes | Scoop News



    Minister says more evidence needed on e-cigarettes

    Thursday, 12 March 2015, 9:27 pm
    Press Release: Auckland University
    Minister says more evidence needed on e-cigarettes

    Media Release - University of Auckland - 12 March 2015

    Different perspectives on the science, use and regulation of e-cigarettes were shared at New Zealand’s first day-long symposium on the alternative device, held at the University of Auckland this week.

    Participants included smoking cessation researchers, government policy makers, healthcare groups, tobacco control lobby groups, individuals and industry representatives.

    The Symposium was organised by the University of Auckland’s Centre for Addiction Research and the Tobacco Control Turanga, led by Professor Chris Bullen (who is also director of the National Institute for Health Innovation).

    The morning session was also attended by the Associate Minister of Health (with responsible for tobacco control) the Hon Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga who said that there was not yet enough evidence to allow the unregulated use of e-cigarettes.

    He said the Government valued the role of nicotine therapies in smoking cessation, but the role of e-cigarettes as a form of nicotine replacement therapy required careful examination and investigation.

    “That’s why today is important – being the first national symposium of its kind on e-cigarettes bringing together the latest expertise and data, and the viewpoints of experts and key stakeholders from here and around the world,” he said.

    “At present there is not enough evidence to recommend e-cigarettes as an aid to quit smoking and the Ministry of Health continues to assess new evidence about e-cigarettes as it arises.”



    “Any manufacturer of e-cigarettes can currently register their product as a medicine through MedSafe for the purpose of helping people to stop smoking. To date, no company has chosen to do so,” said the Hon Peseta Sam.

    “I’m concerned about young people’s experimentation and use of cigarettes and e-cigarettes and what we really need to figure out and understand is the products’ effects on young people, especially the risk to them becoming addicted to nicotine, or possible switching to tobacco products.

    “We need both evidence and caution,” he said. “It would be helpful if the tobacco control sector here could come together on how to respond to these products so there is some form of consensus on the policy and regulatory options on how to best proceed.”

    He said this would assist not only Cabinet, but also the wider public in formulating informed views on these new products.

    “I’m aware the current regulatory framework will need improvement to better protect consumers and public health, and discussions will have to continue beyond what happens here today.”

    Visiting keynote speaker, Professor Wayne Hall from the University of Queensland, said a ban on nicotine in e-cigarettes could do more harm than good, both here in New Zealand and in Australia.

    “It’s quite clear from our surveys that lots of smokers are ignoring the law and importing nicotine refills or buying it illegally. It’s more open in New Zealand – I’ve seen a vapour shop with big signs up on Queen Street and e-cigarettes for sale.”

    In Australia, e-cigarette refills are illegal to sell over the counter but can be legally bought online from overseas suppliers for personal use.

    He said the law created a situation where people were resorting to the black market to buy products that contained a less harmful form of nicotine than normal tobacco cigarettes.

    "You can buy cigarettes, but you're not allowed to buy something that's probably a lot safer, at least in the short term," he said. “There is a middle ground here. We could allow these products to be sold and regulate their sale, minimising their promotion and sale to young people under the age of 18.

    “The government needs to acknowledge the widespread use of e-cigarettes by removing the ban and regulating the nicotine products to ensure their safety. Some form of regulation is fine, but just having a ban is not realistic.

    “The consequence of framing the debate as anything goes, or a ban - is that you give the market to the big companies, most of which are owned by the tobacco companies. That’s an unintended consequence of what they are doing.”

    Professor Chris Bullen advocated for a balanced scientific approach to considering a way forward for e-cigarettes in New Zealand and the goal of SmokeFree NZ by 2025.

    “Currently we have a regulatory context where nicotine is regulated as a medicine except where it is in tobacco and we need to think about the appropriateness of that,” he said. “We won’t make that goal if we continue with our ‘business as usual’ tobacco control strategies. We do need to think outside the box and of innovation, and the question is, are e-cigarettes part of trying to reach that target.”

    Professor Bullen outlined the Cochrane Review findings on e-cigarettes published in December last year, that found that while e-cigarettes containing nicotine were more effective than e-cigarettes without nicotine in helping smokers kick the habit, the results needed to be confirmed by more studies.

    The results had shown the beneficial effects of e-cigarettes, but were limited by the small number of trials and limited sample of people who were analysed in the studies, he said.

    About nine percent of smokers who used e-cigarettes were able to stop smoking at up to one year. This compared with around four percent of smokers who used the nicotine-free electronic cigarettes.

    The Symposium heard other presentations including current trends in e-cigarette use in New Zealand, the Māori and legal perspectives, a vaper’s story, and from healthcare professionals, Ministry of Health policy makers, and challenges for research and regulation of diverse e-cigarette products and of user behaviours.

    ENDS

    © Scoop Media

  2. #2
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    This symposium was a massive step forward for Aus/NZ to be more (dare i use the term) progressive in terms of tobacco harm reduction, the real standout for me was the speech (dodgy sound at first) by Wayne Hall who lays into Daube and Chapman (fk knows they need a good talking down).
    Pleski, JenJ and Vaporific like this.

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    Yeah, would be nice if he'd ever presented such views (particularly anti Daube and Chapman) on Aus shores, bringing daube and chapman into the spotlight where they actually are long standing irritants to vapers and vendors alike.

    Lots of vendors turned up too - well "vendors" - as far as my research has led me, only one legitamite vendor turned up - the rest were those who operated illegally - by selling nicotine on the side - retarded really, selling a class a substance yields more and penalties arent high enough to disregard the risk. With nic supply its an $100K penalty - thats a shitload of nic to move before thats just petty cash thrown at the authorities, @ $20 per bottle thats 5,000 bottles to sell within NZ, its hilarious how the australians are over in nz exploiting the grey areas properly and exporting back here!

    Like this knobjockey LONG WHITE VAPOUR

    "excerpt from his public FB page:

    "As many of you know I've stopped smoking after 25 years and started vaping what some call eCigarettes. The razor man said 'I liked it so much I bought the company'. As did I. After months of trialing and testing different recipes and devices I finally sold my first starter kits today. The best kit available on the market with my own vape juice (containing nicotine) made from scratch. It's very, very good and gone down well with those who know vaping and those I met with today who bought into a healthier alternative to this dying habit. I've sold all 10 kits and have 10 more on order which are pretty much sold out already, but I'm getting more. Please like my page or message me to buy one. I promise to post almost never or some funny shit sometimes. All the fun of smoking for only $100 upfront then around $20 a month... and no death or being embarrassed about your smell, and you can 'smoke' indoors again. You'd be mad not to. Let me know if you or your dirty smoker loved ones are keen."
    https://www.facebook.com/longwhitevapour"

    Darwin award for sure.

    We may have an abundance of clearo + ego suppliers here, but at least we're not overrun by brazen crooks (that also just sell clearos + egos, clones).
    tugboatofdeath likes this.

  4. #4
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    I went to see a new respiratory specialist today and spent an hour with her. After my initial consultation we discussed how I had given up the smokes and I informed her the only way I had been able to give away the smokes was by vaping. She was very interested as vaping has been amongst the most recent topic of discussion by lung specialists. She thought that vaping was a "gateway" to smoking but I told her IMO vaping was in no way a gateway and that most vapers discourage non smokers from going down that path. She was worried, as we all are, that under 18's will use ecigs just for the sake of being cool or what other reason and are easily available for anyone to use. She also agreed that it is not the nicotine that smokers are most reliant on but all the chemicals that are in a cigarette and the hand to mouth motion. She also said that in her opinion it is the chemicals in a cigarette are the cause of most lung diseases and not nicotine.
    This Doctor is now going to look further into ecigs, she did recommend those plastic white things from a chemist, I told her that everything on the market I had tried and failed except for ecigs. I am the only person she has treated with a lung disease that uses ecigs so she wants to learn more...it will be interesting to find out her thoughts next time I see her.

  5. #5
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    Thats awesome MrsHQ202.. (heh)..didnt know you had a lung issue, good to hear yr doc is looking at the positives. Awesome
    mrs308hjute likes this.

  6. #6
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    I am going to drop this here as its not a million miles off topic and flo wont mind!!

    Italy introduced a punitive 80.5% tax on ecigs in January; while vapers may be concerned about similar action in the UK the current discussions taking place in the Danish parliament highlight how taxation is just the tip of the iceberg.
    As reported on the POTV news section, taxation in Italy has prompted almost two thirds of vapers to give up and (the bulk) return to the cheaper option of smoking. Hundreds of vaping stores have closed, people have had their livelihoods removed and the war against a safer alternative to smoking looks set for a bleak outcome.
    Ecig taxation could be tip of the iceberg | Planet of the Vapes

    Point of interest,

    Italy have been the only country to come out and say that the lost tobacco revenue is unacceptable and needs to be replaced. Nothing to do with health!!

    Member States concerning the manufacture, presentation and sale of tobacco and related products (COM(2012)0788 — 2012/0366 (COD)).
    The consumption of traditional cigarettes provides the Member States with sizeable revenues, as a result of the substantial taxes to which they are subject.

    According to a recent report by ANSA (Italian news agency) of 21 April 2013, in the first two months of 2013 alone, Italy’s coffers registered a loss of EUR 132 million, corresponding to a fall in revenue from duty on tobacco of approximately 7.6%. Of course, this shortfall cannot be completely blamed on the increasing use of electronic cigarettes, but it is certainly partly responsible.

    In light of the above, can the Council state what action it intends to take to address the differences in tax revenue materialising in State coffers following the proliferation of electronic cigarettes, which currently appear to be free from any form of duty?



    We're Losing Revenue! Quick, Let's Tax E-Cigs! | **** Puddlecote
    Stomp, fifthflo and Cath Mort like this.
    Because I trust no-one Who tells me FACTS with no proof

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrs308hjute View Post
    I went to see a new respiratory specialist today and spent an hour with her. After my initial consultation we discussed how I had given up the smokes and I informed her the only way I had been able to give away the smokes was by vaping. She was very interested as vaping has been amongst the most recent topic of discussion by lung specialists. She thought that vaping was a "gateway" to smoking but I told her IMO vaping was in no way a gateway and that most vapers discourage non smokers from going down that path. She was worried, as we all are, that under 18's will use ecigs just for the sake of being cool or what other reason and are easily available for anyone to use. She also agreed that it is not the nicotine that smokers are most reliant on but all the chemicals that are in a cigarette and the hand to mouth motion. She also said that in her opinion it is the chemicals in a cigarette are the cause of most lung diseases and not nicotine.
    This Doctor is now going to look further into ecigs, she did recommend those plastic white things from a chemist, I told her that everything on the market I had tried and failed except for ecigs. I am the only person she has treated with a lung disease that uses ecigs so she wants to learn more...it will be interesting to find out her thoughts next time I see her.
    Reminds me, what ever happened to the info cards (like business cards) avf was going to get made up with all the links to hook up a smoker (or in your case for a doctor to peruse) - they were to include OS nic suppliers, local hardware and flavour suppliers, info resources including the aussievapers forum.

    It was one of those young kids ideas that never got off the ground.
    mrs308hjute likes this.

  8. #8
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    I've actually been watching this seminar for the last several hours. Despite being a bit dry in parts it's kept my interest for the most part.

    For those who are interested there is a great bit at 3hrs 20mins where two young women lawyers talk about a paper they've written outlining the legal inconsistencies in the way combustible tobacco is regulated compared the safer alternatives of e-cigs and other NRT products.

    Very clever girls, and very innovative ideas. Well worth a watch.
    Cath Mort likes this.

  9. #9
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    Very clever girls, and very innovative ideas. Well worth a watch.
    Actually Jen, their suggestion would be a disaster for ecigs. It would place the same regulatory and financial barriers to ecigs that currently exist for getting TGA approval. Unless you want to end up with Big Tobacco cigalikes and nothing else, I would suggest rethinking their proposals. It is a case of clever legal minds turning their attention to something that they have little knowledge.
    nicoandlaughter likes this.

  10. #10
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    Heres what a couple of members from the audience had to say (vendors)

    Long White Vapour, Hawkes Bay Vapour, The Vaping Kiwi and NZVapour were all there.
    So, how did it go? Well, it was amazingly positive.
    Of the 14 or so speakers, only one was against making changes to current laws. She was actually directly challenged about where she got her facts from by three of the speakers and presented using memes and by using emotional images of dying people, sexy Blu advertisements and pics of young kids blowing clouds on instagram to convey her point. She didn't come across very well. She made out that all there was in the market was cigalikes made by big tobacco (something that was brought up a lot). I did my best to point out that this wasn't the case and that the major parties are Chinese hardware manufactures and small liquid makers. And that only about 5% of the market was big tobacco cigalikes (yea, someone here will correct me on that figure, but it was a point taken by everyone at the time).
    The rest were very fact based, and the facts all said what we all know. Chart after chart, presenter after oncologist after researcher after maori health worker after anti tobacco person... all saying that they were probably safe, helped people quit smoking and should be available to Kiwis.
    The Ministry of health lady was amazingly positive about them and went through the options they are considering. But said that without research, they can't make the decision. The researchers called her out on this and said 'give us some money and we will do it'.
    Associate minister of health was even there..... but only for about half an hour after he gave the opening address and said he was looking forward to hearing what people had to say... yea.
    Everyone thought the two lawyers who spoke so well were brilliant when they said that one tiny change could make tobacco legal and ecigs could come in under the psychoactive substances Act. When I asked if that meant a vendor selling 50 variants would have to get each one tested for the $80,000 they said yes. I then suggested that that would open the door to it only viable for tobacco companies, to our horror she said yes, and that that is what they are suggesting because they have the best network of shops (dear god)
    The option that came up as the quickest solution across many of the speakers was classify them as a tobacco product. Available where tobacco is sold or a more controlled environment.
    The general consensus was fast action was needed so people can be helped.
    As I said, I have to go out. I'm sure people who watched the steam or were there can correct or elaborate.
    Very positive. But like all things at an academic level, no decisions were made.

    ================================================== ================================================== ====

    To add to that, it seems there are two distinct directions vaping in NZ could possibly be headed in -

    1. E-cigarettes containing nicotine are classified as a medicine and all products must be tested before they can be legally sold on the market. The speakers were all well aware of how this kind of situation would be favorable only for the pharmaceutical and tobacco companies and as such even they had their reservations about this. Nobody is blind to the fact that Big Tobacco does not have a reputation for having their customers' best interests at heart.

    2. E-cigarettes containing nicotine are treated as a competitor to regular cigarettes and are regulated the same. Packaging and advertising would be regulated but the devices and liquids would not. I wasn't actually aware that the contents of a cigarette were not regulated but apparently that is the case. I wasn't entirely sure on whether that meant e-cigarettes would be taxed the same or not.
    One gets the sense though that whatever happens it's not going to happen quickly.

    nabbed from reddit.

 

 
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