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Thread: Chapman's glee

  1. #1
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    Chapman's glee

    A new study which Simon Chapman interprets as evidence that people who vape are less likely to quit cigarettes.

    This is his article about it on The Conversation; https://theconversation.com/want-to-...40499#comments
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  2. #2
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    Havent had a rant for a while ... oops here she blows!


    Interesting that Chappy and other "Health *cough* Experts" break up the dual users who quit and the vapers who quit into two seperate percentages ... Surely the dual users should be added into the mix as vaping IS helping them quit is it not?
    Therefor it works out that VAPERS ARE MORE LIKELY TO QUIT by a factor of 17.6 % vs 13.9 for tobacco only ... BUT even MORE stubbornly once again the anti zealots completely miss the plot and think that everyone who vapes WANTS TO QUIT !
    Whereas in reality , the vast majority of us are I am sure , quite happy with our choice of MINIMISING THE HARM as compared to tobacco smoking .

    Is it THAT hard to get CHAPPY ? With all your grants, resources, and super mental acuity that you lord over anyone who may think differently ... for YOU the game is all about quitting ... for most of us , I would say, its about harm reduction .

    Why Does our Harm Reduction have to be expendable because it messes with your QUITTING agenda ?

    To justify YOUR existence ( and livelihood ) you would rather cast people asunder than recognise what a great choice they have made in getting out from under the monkey of the Tobbaco's back !

    I truly hope at the end of your long career , the balance sheet evens out , but it doesnt feel like it wherever vaping is concerned with you , just another manipulation of facts to prove you are cleverer... but I can do that too , a lonely little vaper , someone you called "pathetic" I believe? yes that Pathetic guy can manipulate the very figures YOU YOURSELF use to justify your perception into making it look like the opposite of what you claim is true ... because technically MY evaluation carries the same empirical logic as your does , and I didnt have to manipulate a thing , just rephrase your argument ... by your own figures "anyone who has tried" vaping is 3.9% more successful at quitting .... now imagine if "Plain Paper Packaging" could claim that 3.9% bonus , you would be crowing til the cows came home
    We did it with no agenda , on our own , AGAINST Phallus's like your good self !

    Fatman Out !
    Last edited by Fatman; 22-04-15 at 09:03 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Here is a different take on the same study, and additional information about the importance of analysing the differences in quit rates between tank system users versus cigalike users.

    This should put the smile back on your face Simon.

    King's College London - E-cigarettes - does type and frequency of use influence quitting amongst smokers?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatman View Post
    Havent had a rant for a while ... oops here she blows!


    Interesting that Chappy and other "Health *cough* Experts" break up the dual users who quit and the vapers who quit into two seperate percentages ... Surely the dual users should be added into the mix as vaping IS helping them quit is it not?
    Therefor it works out that VAPERS ARE MORE LIKELY TO QUIT by a factor of 17.6 % vs 13.9 for tobacco only ... BUT even MORE stubbornly once again the anti zealots completely miss the plot and think that everyone who vapes WANTS TO QUIT !
    Whereas in reality , the vast majority of us are I am sure , quite happy with our choice of MINIMISING THE HARM as compared to tobacco smoking .

    Is it THAT hard to get CHAPPY ? With all your grants, resources, and super mental acuity that you lord over anyone who may think differently ... for YOU the game is all about quitting ... for most of us , I would say, its about harm reduction .

    Why Does our Harm Reduction have to be expendable because it messes with your QUITTING agenda ?

    To justify YOUR existence ( and livelihood ) you would rather cast people asunder than recognise what a great choice they have made in getting out from under the monkey of the Tobbaco's back !

    I truly hope at the end of your long career , the balance sheet evens out , but it doesnt feel like it wherever vaping is concerned with you , just another manipulation of facts to prove you are cleverer... but I can do that too , a lonely little vaper , someone you called "pathetic" I believe? yes that Pathetic guy can manipulate the very figures YOU YOURSELF use to justify your perception into making it look like the opposite of what you claim is true ... because technically MY evaluation carries the same empirical logic as your does , and I didnt have to manipulate a thing , just rephrase your argument ... by your own figures "anyone who has tried" vaping is 3.9% more successful at quitting .... now imagine if "Plain Paper Packaging" could claim that 3.9% bonus , you would be crowing til the cows came home
    We did it with no agenda , on our own , AGAINST Phallus's like your good self !

    Fatman Out !
    Thats something thats bothered me in almost every article ive read in the negative, that harm reduction wasnt factored in and that it wasnt a metric deemed worthy of being part of the conversation and consideration when trying to determine policy etc.

    Just because youre not looking to quit or can be counted in this metric, youre of no importance

    If the only metric that bodies or article writers etc are going to measure is quit statistics, which are skewed anyways, then its pretty clear to me theres a definite agenda and theyre leaving out a fair chunk of people who as you say are probably happy with harm minimisation on purpose. I cant imagine how any body/government can honestly justify saying theyre sincerely concerned with health in the community, while at the same time factoring out this overlooked metric.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stylemessiah View Post
    … I cant imagine how any body/government can honestly justify saying theyre sincerely concerned with health in the community, while at the same time factoring out this overlooked metric.
    Do 'honesty', 'justification' and 'sincerity' have something to do with 'government'? I'm having trouble seeing the connection..
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  6. #6
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    I would just like to commend Judith Olney, whomever that may be here on AVF, for commenting in the comments section of that article & making Simon look foolish.
    Trying to read the comments section, as an impartial observer, while being a staunch vaper, was not easy but it was apparent that Simon was "reaching" for evidence to support his article & the fallacies within it.

    Judith swayed at least 1 non-smoker/non-vaper's opinion of vaping, who prior to reading her comments was very anti-vaping & turned them 180 degrees in favor of vaping, so very well done Judith!

    Judith also had the last comment before the comments section was closed & ended with :

    "Peter Carl V Philips has an excellent website that can answer your questions, here is a link to it : Anti-THR Lies and related topics | because cultivating the truth requires both seeding and weeding

    This website gives in depth explanations concerning the reasons behind the attitudes of some in public health, well worth a look.


    For science and research on vaping please see Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos web site, where these studies are analysed and where credible research is carried out. HomeNicotine has become the focus of some anti-smokers now, as they have been unable to come up with any harmful effects from vaping, so now they are pushing the "evil nicotine" line, as well as the old "wont someone think of the children" nonsense.


    Tobacco smoking is big money for governments, (governments through taxes, particularly here and the UK, make the most profit from a pack of smokes, more even than the tobacco companies that produce cigarettes), people trying to quit is big money for pharma companies, and anti-smoker organisations rely on both pharma and government funding, so it is in their own interests to ensure that people keep smoking tobacco. What they dislike about vapourisers, is that this device was not invented by either pharma or tobacco companies, it is a consumer driven industry, and it works to help people get off tobacco."



    An excellent last comment that many will read & be informed by.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenJ View Post
    Here is a different take on the same study, and additional information about the importance of analysing the differences in quit rates between tank system users versus cigalike users.

    This should put the smile back on your face Simon.

    King's College London - E-cigarettes - does type and frequency of use influence quitting amongst smokers?
    The article itself helps put the smile back , but the thought that a Professor in the UK , where vaping is legitimately seen as Harm Reduction can interpret a study completely differently to our mate Chappo , who's aim isn't that , but instead whose daily bread relies on a "quit at all costs" mentality , and is willing to pervert things to spread HIS message , rather than fight big tobacco with probably THE most successful tool in the arsenal , VAPING !

    Because Vaping is not acceptable within his agenda , it should be not acceptable in anyone elses , because he knows more than any human on the planet what is best for US ... I just get infuriated with these "experts " who have no stake in it other than their reputation and or livelihood placing themselves as "credible witness's " and pandering to an agenda .

    Makes me crook in the guts ... I wonder if I can sue these guys for Bowel Cancer , as I am sure the amount of Shytes they give me cant be healthy !
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  8. #8
    Noe
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    This article from the same journal site, that Chapman used to write his article about, seems to dispute what Chapman wrote.
    Using a larger population sample than the paper he wrote his article about:

    E-cigarette use for quitting smoking is associated with improved success rates



    People attempting to quit smoking without professional help are approximately 60% more likely to report succeeding if they use e-cigarettes than if they use willpower alone or over-the-counter nicotine replacement therapies such as patches or gum, finds a large UCL survey of smokers in England [1]. The results were adjusted for a wide range of factors that might influence success at quitting, including age, nicotine dependence, previous quit attempts, and whether quitting was gradual or abrupt.


    The study, published in Addiction, surveyed 5,863 smokers between 2009 and 2014 (compared to a study of 1,473 smokers in the article in the OP) who had attempted to quit smoking without the aid of prescription medication or professional support. 20% of people trying to quit with the aid of e-cigarettes reported having stopped smoking conventional cigarettes at the time of the survey.


    The research, chiefly funded by Cancer Research UK, (shame Australia's Councer Council, refuses to fund or do any real reseach, preferring rather to demonize vaping) suggests that e-cigarettes could play a positive role in reducing smoking rates. “E-cigarettes could substantially improve public health because of their widespread appeal and the huge health gains associated with stopping smoking,” says Professor Robert West of UCL’s Department of Epidemiology & Public Health, senior author of the study.

    Addiction Journal - Press Releases


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noe View Post
    I would just like to commend Judith Olney, whomever that may be here on AVF, for commenting in the comments section of that article & making Simon look foolish.
    Judith is AVF member 'spud'. She has long worked tirelessly to correct misinformation on vaping in the media, in a calm and rational way. She is an asset to the cause for vaping in this country.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatman View Post
    The article itself helps put the smile back , but the thought that a Professor in the UK , where vaping is legitimately seen as Harm Reduction can interpret a study completely differently to our mate Chappo , who's aim isn't that , but instead whose daily bread relies on a "quit at all costs" mentality , and is willing to pervert things to spread HIS message , rather than fight big tobacco with probably THE most successful tool in the arsenal , VAPING !

    Because Vaping is not acceptable within his agenda , it should be not acceptable in anyone elses , because he knows more than any human on the planet what is best for US ... I just get infuriated with these "experts " who have no stake in it other than their reputation and or livelihood placing themselves as "credible witness's " and pandering to an agenda .

    Makes me crook in the guts ... I wonder if I can sue these guys for Bowel Cancer , as I am sure the amount of Shytes they give me cant be healthy !
    I hear you Fatman!!
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