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Thread: the TPP agreement, detrimental to vapers.

  1. #11
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    We are also a democracy that has freedom as a fundamental right of our society. If you think it is okay for governments to basically steal the intellectual property of private businesses then there's not much I can say.

  2. #12
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    Not sure what you are talking about there mate.

    I thought we were discussing the right of international corporations to sue us for lost profit if we block them from engaging in business that has negative implications for Australians?

  3. #13
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    Plain packaging is basically stealing the intellectual property of Tobacco companies. The companies logo and design is their intellectual property. Exorbitant taxes is stealing off the consumers of their products. Nobody else is fighting for the rights of their consumers, nobody else gives a shit. So good luck to them. Tobacco companies that is.

  4. #14
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    It's not stolen, we haven't taken it and are using it, it's just banned. They can use it wherever they like... except here. We own this place, they don't own us.

    I personally think the taxes are preposterous also, a clear money grab, but I don't think the Australian people should pay twice for our governments folly. And if they say that by refusing their packaging branding has decreased their sales then they are saying that the policies put in place had the effect the government intended, to reduce tobacco consumption. We don't owe them anything for making the right choice towards generational change away from tobacco.
    Josh84 likes this.

  5. #15
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    Some interesting points there guys, I personally think the plain packaging is a crock. As an existing smoker it had absolutely no effect on my choice to smoke, I personally believe that the impact on new smoker uptake would be minimal (not that any decent peer reviewed study would tell you that!) if the education of young people about the dangers has little effect then plain packaging would do even less!

    I personally think that the government don't want people to stop smoking, they make far too much money from the taxes to do something smart like legalising the sale of nic based juice as a stop smoking aid. Similar to why they will never ban pokies, gambling etc. As far as the TPP agreement goes I don't know enough about it to pass much comment but I will say this, if big corp love that this has passed it is a fair sign that the majority will not benefit!
    nicoandlaughter likes this.

  6. #16
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    And if they say that by refusing their packaging branding has decreased their sales then they are saying that the policies put in place had the effect the government intended, to reduce tobacco consumption.
    This Tobacco Control level understanding of economics. Eliminating their branding does indeed reduce their profits but it does not follow (nor has it been shown) that it will also reduce sales.

    It's not stolen, we haven't taken it and are using it, it's just banned. They can use it wherever they like... except here. We own this place, they don't own us.
    The tobacco packet is the property of tobacco companies. You can't just come in and deface it, anymore than you can walk into somebody's home and trash it - well at least not in a democracy. This is what the principle of freedom is meant to protect.

    If you think this will end with Tobacco companies think again, this will be applied to whatever they like, so long as they can get away with it.
    Danyel Geelong likes this.

  7. #17
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    Dear citizen of the free world ... once again we would like to apologise for any concept or delusion of free will or democracy that you might currently be labouring under...rest assured that we will be working our hardest in the very near future to ensure that Govt or business rights will always take precedence ... at the moment there might be a small amount of confusion as we are currently working out which of the two will be the Alpha Dog ... again rest assured that in no instance will it ever be you, so dont worry your pretty head about it , continue working, consuming, and paying your taxes ... its all we ask .. Let Us do the thinking for you ....

    Regards, Fortune 500 and your Elected ( *guffaw*.. we still laugh over that one) Representatives ....
    EPM V2-18490 (X2 ),GP Spheroid V2.5 and GP Piccolo V2.5 ,BBCB, Provari mini's, REO mini V2.1, 18490 REO , Jazz Carto Pipes ( fitted with GA tank and churchwarden stem Totally Evil!!! ), Meerschaum pipe ,e-holly35W,Phideas, AIOS,Taifun atties, PC Pipe mods.PC Squonker, Svapiamo squonker, GP Paps Heron combo.

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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgscott View Post
    This Tobacco Control level understanding of economics. Eliminating their branding does indeed reduce their profits but it does not follow (nor has it been shown) that it will also reduce sales.



    The tobacco packet is the property of tobacco companies. You can't just come in and deface it, anymore than you can walk into somebody's home and trash it - well at least not in a democracy. This is what the principle of freedom is meant to protect.

    If you think this will end with Tobacco companies think again, this will be applied to whatever they like, so long as they can get away with it.
    Been watching this trend and it looks like sugar will be next in the firing line lead by dickweeds like Jamie Oliver (who also happens to be a hypocrite when it comes to sales of his books)

    The guise is the big epidemic of obesity - but like tobacco, it looks as tho we are going full circle with certain products like tobacco, then sugar and then salt made only available to the rich .. and being made more attractive to the poor as something to aspire to

    Interests me how these wars on things turn into nothing more than class warfare in many ways ...wanders off to do .. like stuff..
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    "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldnít have come here.Ē
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgscott View Post
    This Tobacco Control level understanding of economics. Eliminating their branding does indeed reduce their profits but it does not follow (nor has it been shown) that it will also reduce sales.

    The tobacco packet is the property of tobacco companies. You can't just come in and deface it, anymore than you can walk into somebody's home and trash it - well at least not in a democracy. This is what the principle of freedom is meant to protect.

    If you think this will end with Tobacco companies think again, this will be applied to whatever they like, so long as they can get away with it.
    I disagree with you.

    How could profit fall whilst sales remain the same? Where did the money go? Certainly not into marketing. Maybe on lawyers... Though tobacco consumption is actually falling, has been for years.

    Sure we can ban tobacco advertising and branding, democracy voted that. If as a country we make laws to protect our people (right or wrong in others opinion) that is the law. No foreign enterprise has any reprisal. They can't coming in whinging about their rights as a foreign company as they have the same rights as the rest of the people in Australia, under the law. Unless we give it to them with agreements like the TPP. This is why it must be stopped.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebelagainstthemachine View Post
    Been watching this trend and it looks like sugar will be next in the firing line lead by dickweeds like Jamie Oliver (who also happens to be a hypocrite when it comes to sales of his books)

    The guise is the big epidemic of obesity - but like tobacco, it looks as tho we are going full circle with certain products like tobacco, then sugar and then salt made only available to the rich .. and being made more attractive to the poor as something to aspire to

    Interests me how these wars on things turn into nothing more than class warfare in many ways ...wanders off to do .. like stuff..
    Funny how we are trying to blame substances on peoples behavior. Much more could be done with leading people towards healthy choices, rather than barring them from unhealthy ones.

    Much less drama, and probably easier too. (not enough $$$'s though)

 

 
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