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Thread: Subliminal messages tell us smoking is good and hard to stop? Or am i delusional?

  1. #1
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    Cool Subliminal messages tell us smoking is good and hard to stop? Or am i delusional?

    For example:
    https://quitsmokingcommunity.org/how...ine-addiction/
    'cigarettes may give you a “high” feeling'
    'When you smoke, it raises your dopamine levels, which is very enjoyable and both physically and mentally pleasurable.'
    'it improves attention span and helps you to remember what you learned.'

    I read the text at the above site and i think, deep down in the subconscious mind 'yup, sure, smoking is bad, but...smoking is good too! No wonder it is hard to give up.'
    But i also think, 'bollocks.' 'The nic or other lovelies in smoke does not release endorphin's.' 'Am i being conned?' I feel the same way when i see government programs, packaging and billboards shouting, 'it is hard to stop, quitting is real hard, therefore you likely wont be able to and you will keep smoking into oblivion.'

    And i also wonder sometimes if the same brain washing is carrying over into nic consumption through vaping.
    When i watched a hardcore smoker of 40 years drop the the fags effortlessly, claiming that the CE4 Ego generating barley visible vapor off 6mg juice was giving her her nic fix, i did not buy it.

    Does anyone else see anything hard to believe at the above site?

    Many here will most likely look at vaping as something not very closely related to smoking. Not asking you guys. But thinking of the ones who associate vaping with smoking, i am intrigued.

    Either nic is a phantom, a great illusion, or i just do not get it.

  2. #2
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    The problem I have is the stop smoking websites, pharmaceutical companies, and the various quit groups try to make out (or seem to think) that the *only* addictive chemical in tobacco smoke is nicotine.

    We know that is not true, and we are starting to understand that it's the addiction to some of the other alkaloids that make it so hard for some people to give up smoking with NRT and even vaping. These other alkaloids plus nicotine are often talked about under the umbrella of "WTA" or whole tobacco alkaloids. There seems to be a wide variation in the degree that people get addicted to WTAs. I was on the harder end of tobacco withdrawal and I can tell you that it's not fun. I only stayed with vaping through determination verging on the point of shear bloody mindedness, and through the sympathetic help of of vapers on these forums. Vaping was a very important distraction at this time, but it definitely lacked something.

    There really are people who can just put down cigarettes one day and never smoke again. There are people can do it with 6mg liquid on a cigalike, and then there are a heck of a lot of people who at the 3 month period are nicking themselves into oblivion and still craving a cigarette. That was my own experience.

    So if something doesn't seem quite right about websites like that, it is probably because they demonise nicotine while letting you continue to think that nicotine is the only addictive substance. Until they start to recognise that nicotine is only a tiny part of the big picture, and that there is a very wide degree of susceptibility to tobacco addiction then they are never going to make complete sense.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  3. #3
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    My 2 cents ..
    NRT and the views of the majority do not factor in the habit itself.
    Smoking provides a "break" take that away and there is a massive void in your life.
    Vaping countered that void for me which is why i found the transition almost pain free.
    I believe that people are addicted to smoking for different reasons most of which are never addressed.
    My addiction was to the habit, vaping answred that.
    fabricator4 and Holy smoke! like this.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walker87 View Post
    My 2 cents ..
    NRT and the views of the majority do not factor in the habit itself.
    Smoking provides a "break" take that away and there is a massive void in your life.
    Vaping countered that void for me which is why i found the transition almost pain free.
    I believe that people are addicted to smoking for different reasons most of which are never addressed.
    My addiction was to the habit, vaping answred that.
    Walker, same here.

    I relapsed with cigs over the new year holidays but went back to vape a couple of weeks after.

    What did help immensely too is that I decided to attend a detox unit for a week (for alcohol dependence) and that facility is smoke free, only basic nic inhales are allowed. So I guess I detoxed of all the other sh1t that's in cigs at the same time.

    One out i really enjoyed delicious vape and haven't touched cigs since (my partner and friends smoke in front of me, doesn't bother me but yeah they stink!). Still enjoy an occasional beer (although not in the mornings and all day like before!)




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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by fabricator4 View Post
    WTAs.
    I had a crack at 'quitting' fags about a year ago. After fumbling with vape hardware for awhile i wound up with acceptable vapor laced with 24mg.
    That did not cut it. A side story, Ulcerative colitis symptoms ensued every time i stopped smoking after about 4 weeks. So back on em i went. Got set up with snus from some incredible members of this community, my face numb from snus like i'd just left the dentist and some impressive nicups, but nope. Still not cutting it.
    About 3 weeks back i tried again. My mouth tastes like i've chewed a cup of pepper with 24mg mtl. A familiar taste, definitely something that was in smokes, 'nic'. But, still something missing again...
    What is it!? Monoxide?
    Nobody knows...
    Maybe it is something to do with the philosophy of it, like, a reminder of our mortality or something?
    Or quite simply the brainwashing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walker87 View Post
    My addiction was to the habit, vaping answred that.
    Habit. A simple but powerful thing too..

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy smoke! View Post
    Still not cutting it.
    About 3 weeks back i tried again. My mouth tastes like i've chewed a cup of pepper with 24mg mtl. A familiar taste, definitely something that was in smokes, 'nic'. But, still something missing again...
    What is it!? Monoxide?
    Nobody knows...
    Have you tried WTAs?

    Whole Tobacco Alkaloid WTA Eliquid Ejuice

    An AVF thread on it here: Best vendor for WTA e juice?
    I'm sure there are others too.
    Holy smoke! likes this.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  7. #7
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    I think another powerful thing associated with it all is the breathing patterns. Inhale, hold, exhale slowly (vaping or smoking). A powerful effect on the brain. A vaping or smoking habit forces us to do that. Maybe i'll just walk around inhaling an imaginary smoke. That would be classic. Although i'd look insane it is possibly the most sane thing (in regards to quitting smoking - flavor connoisseurs and vape hobbyists need not apply).
    muscovyduckling likes this.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by fabricator4 View Post
    Have you tried WTAs?
    I have not. I figured that snus would have all the WTA's so left it at that. But thanks for the reminder, i'll check it out.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy smoke! View Post
    I have not. I figured that snus would have all the WTA's so left it at that. But thanks for the reminder, i'll check it out.
    I'm not sure it does. The way Snus is treated by my understanding removes most of the carcinogens. WTA liquid contains other alkaloids and most likely nitrosamine. The other alkaloids increase the affect of nicotine but may have other dependency problems as well. Even in countries where Snus is used and seems to be popular there is still a minor percentage of people who continue to smoke. There must be a good reason for this.

    Nitrosamine is carcinogenic, but vaping it is still less dangerous than smoking. There's also a disconnect between snus use and vaping. Snus might give you more of the alkaloids, but it doesn't give you the smoking sensation. Vaping gives you the sensation, but the only alkaloid is nicotine unless you use a WTA liquid.

    When I was having trouble I investigated and found out about WTAs. I decided to not go down that route because of the nitrosamine and the expense. I was also most of the way through the worst and was starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel (over the worst of the depression and most of the angst except for about three hours in the evening). I was told by other vapers that things would get better, and they did. If I was at the point of considering smoking again instead of vaping I would certainly have considered getting some WTA liquid, or in the case that was not feasible (they were really hard to get then) I would have considered dual use with a view to weaning myself off tobacco gradually.

    I'm pretty sure this is why some smokers dual use for quite some time before they decide they can exist with just vaping only.
    Holy smoke! likes this.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  10. #10
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    Complicated topic, this one... falls into issues of deviancy, medicalization, and issues with and of psychology especially within a corporate context among other things.. kinda like an article I recently read about social workers needing people to be fixed, deviant or have something wrong because they themselves could end up in the same boat as thier clients.

    But before I ramble lets also keep in mind that there is no proof or respectable study anywhere that says nicotine is addictive on its own without the added extras of ciggarettes- dont believe me? Check for yourself! The assumption that nicotine is addictive is based on studies on ciggarettes and its 4000+ components- not as an item on its own.

    In fact It seems we dont even appear to know how nicotine became associated with NRT or even vaping happened- outside of assuming that thier internal studies might have shown that nicotine is relatively benign and the placebo effect which kicks in with the repeated msg that nicotine is a poisonous ingrediant in ciggarettes therefore helpful in quitting

    In terms of smoking, I do agree, many are affected by the message that smoking is hard to quit- Its a msg that is given adnauseum to smokers- gives them reason to go to doctors, invest in quack science like hypnotism, buy the latest and greatest NRT or now anti smoking pill which will be floated, take anti depressants they dont need and other questionable practices.

    Interestingly - Many smokers tell you they dont want to quit - but this is never openly said by ANTZ- instead they address it by giving forced reasons to quit by demonizing smokers, taxing ciggarettes and other things - They have never really addressed the pleasure factor and how to replace it- prefering instead to focus on withdrawing and similar to how many vapers tell newbies - work through it, use wilpower etc etc

    Have you been duped? Well yes and no

    Like its already pointed out - Habit on its own can be a very powerful thing for some people so just the hand to mouth action is more likely to help those that this effects

    For me personally - its not the nicotine but the calmative effect of WTAs that does it - my withdrawls from smoking are physical and the tension overwhelming - Inoticed when I switched to snus - life making the switch was easy rather than hard - my nic levels were alot lower than when I had been smoking and fiercly lower than when I had been vaping - in fact I found it easy to mix non nic with nicotine pouches and half the time not know the difference after a while - I relapsed back to smoking after I couldnt get snus easily and vaping seriously wasnt cutting it - a story which is not disimilar to a few snusers I imagine- For a while I had to rely on vaping and willpower - a situation that did not bode well for me until finally my orders got through again and I started becoming creative making my own WTA lozenges -

    My personal view of vaping vs snus for me alone - is that vaping also entails inhaling - something oddly as a born again non smoker does not suit well with me - but I can see why vaping on its own suits others perfectly (two in my houshold have switched to vaping no problem while I floundered terribly until snus)

    WTA Juice though not talked about that much in puritain vaping circles - like snus can also have a calmative effect on some people - that being said WTA juice will help some but not others- the reason could two fold - Some people need WTAs - but the levels in WTA juice is lower than you find in snus but for some others who knows? Maybe the placebo effect comes into play too?

    Truth is we dont also dont know much about the placebo effect - or how the human mind works

    There are some studies that addiction rewires some peoples brains - but again this aspect is never talked about by ANTZ and media nor is it addressed by either


    There is a danger in the whole will power approach and the whole its a placebo effect - for those who cant or wont - it demonizes smokers even more - making them feel like they have failed in some way - Some people really do have a hard time quitting 4000+ chemicals and the truth of the matter is that we dont appear to know which of those 4000 are the culprits in addiction-

    We do know however that for ciggarette companies to need to boost the addictive toxins in thier products that tobbacco on its own - ciggarettes may not be as addictive as we hear - (Why has public health never told them to cut out these extra chemicals?) Snus also shows over 200 years that sucking on (not smoking) clean- no additive tobacco is pretty harmless too - (although both may continue to be addictive- the harm effects may be lessoned without the extra chemicals)

    Its a big subject and will give you more questions than answers - either way I suspect that that feeling you have of something is not right with what we are being taught will not go away over time - if anything it will just lead to more questions of why? and make you more cynical

    Good luck on your quest!






    Quote Originally Posted by Holy smoke! View Post
    For example:
    https://quitsmokingcommunity.org/how...ine-addiction/
    'cigarettes may give you a “high” feeling'
    'When you smoke, it raises your dopamine levels, which is very enjoyable and both physically and mentally pleasurable.'
    'it improves attention span and helps you to remember what you learned.'

    I read the text at the above site and i think, deep down in the subconscious mind 'yup, sure, smoking is bad, but...smoking is good too! No wonder it is hard to give up.'
    But i also think, 'bollocks.' 'The nic or other lovelies in smoke does not release endorphin's.' 'Am i being conned?' I feel the same way when i see government programs, packaging and billboards shouting, 'it is hard to stop, quitting is real hard, therefore you likely wont be able to and you will keep smoking into oblivion.'

    And i also wonder sometimes if the same brain washing is carrying over into nic consumption through vaping.
    When i watched a hardcore smoker of 40 years drop the the fags effortlessly, claiming that the CE4 Ego generating barley visible vapor off 6mg juice was giving her her nic fix, i did not buy it.

    Does anyone else see anything hard to believe at the above site?

    Many here will most likely look at vaping as something not very closely related to smoking. Not asking you guys. But thinking of the ones who associate vaping with smoking, i am intrigued.

    Either nic is a phantom, a great illusion, or i just do not get it.
    Last edited by rebelagainstthemachine; 29-05-16 at 03:27 PM.
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    "How do you know I’m mad?" said Alice.
    "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn’t have come here.”
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