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  1. #11
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    nope sorry hoofy I didnt... do tell!

    Meanwhile this is 6 days old but still relevant to qlders who may want a say - yep its smoking based - but remember vaping is in the same catergory as tobacco over there yonder

    Smoke drift in homes: Have your say

    Smoke drift in homes: Have your say | Rainbow Beach Community News
    Wombats1 likes this.
    ďBut I donít want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
    "Oh, you canít help that," said the Cat: "weíre all mad here. Iím mad. Youíre mad."
    "How do you know Iím mad?" said Alice.
    "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldnít have come here.Ē
    Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland






    Comic Database: Steve Hughes... Offended?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHMoDt3nSHs











  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoofprint View Post
    well fk me, any of you guys catch the politician speak just now.


    EDIT: Not 1, but 3-4 senators got up one after another talking about Vaping. both the pro's and cons.
    One senator even called chapman on his bullshit and wanted to know why anti smoke has their heads up their asses (hoofprint politics translation)

    i swear i thought i was having a heart attack, id died and went to a place were politicians are actually helpful.
    That's interesting ... where did you catch that mate?
    Wombats1 likes this.
    Ignore the Super-moderator tag in my profile, I have resigned from that position but admin have not updated my profile as yet

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by fabricator4 View Post
    It comes from finding an immune system response in laboratory tests, and falsely making claims about what this means. Pretty much the pattern for most anti vaping research - stiffening of the heart muscles, youth vaping, popcorn lung etc etc.


    Here's a letter from Clive Bates to Mitch Zellar:

    You want a debate about nicotine? Let’s have one. Letter to Mitch Zeller, America’s vape regulator ę The counterfactual

    or even deliberately asking the wrong questions of the wrong people:
    Bogus vape study connected to big pharma - Vaping360
    Thanks Fab yeh I read the study underneath the one making the infection claim after I posted.
    It a bit like the COPD in mice findings whereby they nearly kill the mice with doses of nic so high that it is impossible to gain anything but doomsaying. It is so frustratingly junk science.

    Hoofy was that vic parliament? I keep missing that stream over the past few days I think they are done now ?
    Smoke free since april 2016

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtadmin View Post
    That's interesting ... where did you catch that mate?
    it was ABC radio 98.1 (NSW regional), they stream senate and parliament question time.

    it started with all the government lackeys patting themselves on the back for todays new cig tax hike.
    This one senator got up and start laying into em, discussed both good and bad, even brought up the survey results of that Uni guy that was on AVF last year looking for info.

    He just laid it all out on the table, no bullshit, no shenanigans, no bias just raw info for the rest of them to think about it.
    then a chick had a turn, talked about second hand vape and how its no where as dangerous as smoking...


    even if it goes nowhere in the long run. All that information is on public record now.
    We provapes are not this Looney crackpot woman sitting in her basement making up fairy tales (cough donna, cough jen) this will put Anti Vape on notice.
    Last edited by Hoofprint; 14-09-16 at 01:17 PM.

  5. #15
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    Thanks mate
    Ignore the Super-moderator tag in my profile, I have resigned from that position but admin have not updated my profile as yet

  6. #16
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    i found it

    Senate [Part 1] - 14/09/2016 09:25:00 ‚€“ Parliament of Australia

    Senate [Part 1] - 14/09/2016 09:25:00

    this time system is allite wonky, you need drag the bar at the bottom of the vid so the timer reads
    10:18:35 / 13:25:00
    EDIT: second part follow up with the chick 10:40.20
    EDIT2: im sure there is more buried in there, but i haven't slept in 31 hrs now ill leave it in RATM's hands he's the resident AVF Spymaster


    thats roughly when he starts talking about ecigs and the follow up.

    i probably to late to mention Don't get your hopes up.
    im just happy for a balanced argument, not heavily favouring one side
    Last edited by Hoofprint; 14-09-16 at 02:33 PM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoofprint View Post
    i probably to late to mention Don't get your hopes up.
    im just happy for a balanced argument, not heavily favouring one side

    Yep, the peanut and media gallery looked exceptionally empty. I think I saw a total of two people watching.
    gtadmin likes this.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoofprint View Post
    i found it

    Senate [Part 1] - 14/09/2016 09:25:00 ‚€“ Parliament of Australia

    Senate [Part 1] - 14/09/2016 09:25:00

    this time system is allite wonky, you need drag the bar at the bottom of the vid so the timer reads
    10:18:35 / 13:25:00
    EDIT: second part follow up with the chick 10:40.20
    EDIT2: im sure there is more buried in there, but i haven't slept in 31 hrs now ill leave it in RATM's hands he's the resident AVF Spymaster


    thats roughly when he starts talking about ecigs and the follow up.

    i probably to late to mention Don't get your hopes up.
    im just happy for a balanced argument, not heavily favouring one side
    That was James Paterson who is now a Senator.

    He used to work for the IPA, a lobby group that represented a bunch of companies including Big Tobacco firms.

    Be careful of this guy.

    He says that he wants a free market and says positive things about e-cigs.

    But given his past, and probably future prospects, what he may really want is the banning of loose juice and refillable tanks, and a complete market domination by the cigalikes and over-priced disposable cartomisers (i.e a completely Big Tobacco owned ecig market).

    Here's a blast from the past

    Last edited by PurpleVapes; 14-09-16 at 11:51 PM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleVapes View Post
    Be careful of this guy.

    He says that he wants a free market and says positive things about e-cigs.
    Well he talks like what the Yanks would call a libertarian; free market and no nanny state.

    But given his past, and probably future prospects, what he may really want is the banning of loose juice and refillable tanks, and a complete market domination by the cigalikes and over-priced disposable cartomisers (i.e a completely Big Tobacco owned ecig market).
    Well maybe we should ask him? It's easy to get paranoid about these things because we are very afraid of regulation. It would be a mistake to not support someone if the fears turn out to be baseless though. I've been watching what's happening in the states and even vapers are eating each other over there. Ed Wolf seems to have finally pulled his head in though.

    If nothing else, asking him some pointed questions about his vision for vaping going forward might let him know he's being watched.

    One thing is clear from watching the pollies debate tobacco control and NRT, they really have very little idea of the realities of the situation. Time and again they make the assumption that smoking is a choice. They either have no idea about the realities of tobacco addiction for most people or can't speak about them in a cogent manner. It should be pretty obvious by now with cigarettes at $25 a pack and all we know about the health effects that if people could give up, they already would have. Adding another $10 at least to the cost of a pack by 2020 is not going to make any difference except cause more people to start buying chop chop.

    Illegal tobacco was also talked about in that video. They don't see it as a major problem, and think it can be controlled by enforcement. What a joke, they have no idea. Tobacco is now a lucrative enough business for the tobacco rings to purchase their own transport and ship it anywhere in Australia themselves. It doesn't have to come via any of the major ports any more. The net result? I think the quality of the chop chop might increase, because it won't have to sit in a shipping container for weeks before it gets to final destination. If I was in the business, I'd be buying a small and fast vessel capable of handling the open sea. Couple of days on the crossing, then a couple of days to lose yourself in the coastal traffic and you're home.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  10. #20
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    The IPA goes further than that -

    Couple of articles

    This one is pre election
    Institute of Public Affairs: the think tank with arms everywhere

    this one is a kind of a history of the IPA with an apology from one of the former leaders
    https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/...14722200003666


    IPA list of 75 ideas for australia and thier 25 more ideas just under

    (scroll down to get to the lists themselves )
    Be like Gough: 75 radical ideas to transform Australia | Institute of Public Affairs Australia

    and

    25 more ideas for Tony Abbott | Institute of Public Affairs Australia

    You were right purple they are not actually a free market libertarian group - they are a corporate libertarian group and wont care unless a monopoly is involved for either or PH BT or both (They have funding from both as well as Ruperts monopoly)

    Real wolves in sheeps clothing (and also for the record the leader Roskham was also the best man at Shortens wedding- they have been freinds for a long time- which migh explain a bit there as well)

    I suspect also that there was aside from some hand greasing - some corporate libertarian support when Altria basically wrote the FDA legislation (CBFed looking atm.. but they couldnt have done it on thier own)


    I see also that board members of the NNA AU are planning on playing with them - if this is the case - duck for cover - because the way the TGA and smoke free laws and proposals have been set up - by Cancer council, NNA AU, and Nicovations...

    The ground is now fertile for a corporate mess ...

    Pity tho there are still other ways to go about things...
    ďBut I donít want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
    "Oh, you canít help that," said the Cat: "weíre all mad here. Iím mad. Youíre mad."
    "How do you know Iím mad?" said Alice.
    "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldnít have come here.Ē
    Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland






    Comic Database: Steve Hughes... Offended?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHMoDt3nSHs











 

 
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