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  1. #21
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    yeah did look a little sparse, but the senators not in chamber seen it.
    they have a lounge room out back with a live stream to the floor so they can eat while paying attention.

    the important take home is we had not one but two senators including one from Ban happy WA discuss vaping.
    All without the stink of either pro vape, Anti vape, CC, HF, big T or big P with their hands up their asses like a puppet.

    "for the people" neutral senator's, will take it on board and do their own study hopefully.

    Edit: taking onboard everything above, i still think its a good thing.

    i don't need a senator to have spotless record, personally i couldnt give a shit if he goes to bed every night spooning with a cigarette pack.
    we just need one to start talking about vaping in even handed way.

    the senate is like horse racing, just because he is not the horse we are betting on doesn't mean hes not important.
    we still need other horses for the race.
    Last edited by Hoofprint; 15-09-16 at 02:10 AM.
    gtadmin, Fatman, Cath Mort and 1 others like this.

  2. #22
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    Libs call for rethink on e-cigarette ban

    Libs call for rethink on e-cigarette ban



    Vaping Is Actually Good, According to Science

    Vaping Is Actually Good, According to Science | VICE | Australia / NZ

    UK

    Boom in 'vaping' sees UKís first ever e-cigarette liquid production factory

    Britain has become a vape nation, first e-cigarette liquid factory opens | UK | News | Daily Express


    So Uh... Vape Tricks Are Cool Now?

    So Uh... Vape Tricks Are Cool Now?



    Off topic? sorta ..
    Your Phone Is A Ticking Time Bomb

    Your Phone Is A Ticking Time Bomb | Gizmodo Australia
    ďBut I donít want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
    "Oh, you canít help that," said the Cat: "weíre all mad here. Iím mad. Youíre mad."
    "How do you know Iím mad?" said Alice.
    "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldnít have come here.Ē
    Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland






    Comic Database: Steve Hughes... Offended?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHMoDt3nSHs











  3. #23
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    Not that its not important - but something that is obvious is that vaping in Australia lacks is strategy and open community discussion - thats why its in a position of potentially being cornered into monopolies atm (partly by thier own hand)

    Vape 'advocacy' in Australia is reactionist in nature with three people leading it- grasping at anything without thinking anything through or discussing decisions with those thier decisions affect and without taking in opinions and ideas that are outside thier own echo chamber...

    Until there is change in Aussie advocacy - everyone will be at the mercy of bigger better paid fish who are only out for profit or recognition without thought for consequence




    Quote Originally Posted by Hoofprint View Post
    the senate is like horse racing, just because he is not the horse we are betting on doesn't mean hes not important.
    we still need other horses for the race.
    Last edited by rebelagainstthemachine; 15-09-16 at 12:42 PM.
    gtadmin likes this.
    ďBut I donít want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
    "Oh, you canít help that," said the Cat: "weíre all mad here. Iím mad. Youíre mad."
    "How do you know Iím mad?" said Alice.
    "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldnít have come here.Ē
    Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland






    Comic Database: Steve Hughes... Offended?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHMoDt3nSHs











  4. #24
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    The thing is that advocacy groups have been tried before with the AVA 1 and 2's attempts to get something going.

    But alas it all seemed to end up a big mess with differing opinions, in fighting and nothing at all being done.

    Often the problem seemed to be armchair critics who did nothing but opine and sink the boot into those that actually tried to do something.

    The NNA appeared after an international conference and someone decided to offer to get it going in Australia.

    Well I personally may not agree with how things are done at times, and I get angry about it, but the thing is that things are done.

    There seems to be an international contacts system in place and many personal face to face meetings with Politicians and various groups and people in harm reduction etc.

    At least it seems that they actually get off their arses and try and do the best they can.

    Well that is how it seems to me and as I am not really doing much personally, I prefer to to leave them to it and see how it goes and withhold useless and speculative criticism.

    Especially after the previous attempts at community discussion also known as open slather warfare between different opposing factions all with right on their side.

    People just do things and it is not really up to me to judge. I guess the only real way is to actually do something.

    Shit happens I guess.
    Robray and fabricator4 like this.

  5. #25
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    Christian there will always be more than one way of looking at things - the problems that NNA mark one and two had was that like Donnas mark three they were also to be secretive and top down in approach - thats why they flopped - Discussion at that time wasnt really allowed to happen and there is a tonne more to that story - but like now people wanted to support them because they were the only things going and like now some opposed them because they were headed for the current direction that Donnas NNA AU is taking

    The NNA AU appeared after donna reappeard on this forum after some extermely devisive behaviour, she put down the vince appeal, she put people down for not subscibing to her zealotry on the dylactle issue, she rubbished core people here then ran off to start a competing forum where they could discuss politics and where they further trashed the people here and with opposing views

    The only difference now and then is that she heads her own trio under a formal banner on another forum where they continue to be devisive and shut down dissedent voices by either ignoring them or bullying them into submission into beliveing thier way is the only and ensuring that only thiers is the only heard in the vaping community

    Threads / posts have often been deleted to hide some of the nastyness

    So where are we now?

    Well contrary to the line that the NNA AU uses to avoid discussion here about bullies and inability to dicuss issues- politics since they started thier own forum are regulary reported and commented on by different views here on AVF - There is in fact next to no drama that happens in relation to politics. I suspect also from some of the pms and comments that I have had over time over the news thread that some people would actually like more here so that they feel more involved in the process, can have thier opinons heard and be better informed

    Put simply there comes a time in even advocacys life to grow up or advocacy begines to become nothing more than the mouthpiece of the people you are trying to get heard by

    Respectfully Christian I disagree and am not impressed by what has been achieved by the NNA AU -

    -Bowing to dissedents in the cancer council and public health to limit nic to 36mg,
    - possibly cutting vendors out of the TGA deal
    - possibly cutting out imports through the open ended TGA thing
    -Playing with the sex party and other dubious people in politics
    -Blowing clouds at a rally with the sex party
    - possible support for the IPA who would see vaping monopolised in a heartbeat
    - The three active board members cutting thier members and financial members out of the decision to make a TGA submission
    - Lack of research into the wants and needs of current vapers and what they belive is the proper course in order to properly represent thier constituency (not hard to do)
    - Refusal to say who helped write the submission so we cant see who the stakeholders are
    - Claiming to speak for vapers but cutting the vaping community out
    - People complaining of bullying
    - Setting vaping up for monoplies by either pharma or BT and more
    - Relying only on the opinions on 'experts' from health and science without due consideration for the effect thier decisions will have in the short and long term
    - Vape at any cost to the community or future vapers
    - Silencing others who want to advocate in their own way (dont the NNA AU will do it yada yada - or we know what we are doing yada yada )
    - (A personal one) but cutting alternative harm reduction out
    - Having no strategy or vision as to where this will all end up

    Christian you are not alone in your view that at least they are doing something and it is something that saddens me - because as a vaper it is for you to judge and you have the right to speak up not only when you agree with something (like now with your defense of the NNA AU ) but when you disagree.

    If everyone in life were just allowed to do things - life would be at the mercy of alot more nastyness- The vaping community is diverse and among other things a clever facilitator of any community group is taught how to deal with diverisity in a fair and transparent manner - rather than beating people over the head, ignoring them or repeating the mantra we are your only saviours

    Its not that shit just happens but what you choose to do about it (if anything) and how you choose to deal with it later

    The rest of the aussie vaping community has grown up - why cant the three active board members of the NNA AU do the same?
    Last edited by rebelagainstthemachine; 15-09-16 at 06:52 PM.
    ďBut I donít want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
    "Oh, you canít help that," said the Cat: "weíre all mad here. Iím mad. Youíre mad."
    "How do you know Iím mad?" said Alice.
    "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldnít have come here.Ē
    Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland






    Comic Database: Steve Hughes... Offended?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHMoDt3nSHs











  6. #26
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    We do see things differently, I have been around for all of it.

    I just don't agree with the way you look at it or probably anyone else really.

    I don't really need to be told what is going on from one persons perceived reality because, like I said, I have been around; even before this forum.

    I just now watch with interest and support no one. I just try and look at it all from different view points and say mmmmmmm.

    It seems you are on some sort of personal mission against the NNA, I don't really care that much.

    People do things and it is not really up to me to judge.

  7. #27
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    I am assuming the whirlpool forums? Yep a few people here were there - I admittedly wasnt one of them -

    You dont have to agree and thats ok but thats a good point isnt it? Also good that both are able to openly say that..

    As to personal crusade ? Yep I can see how you might think that way- I am a dissenting loudmouth after all (and not apologetic for that) but I am not the only one that thinks this way or in a similar way

    Personal crusades can also be defined by the viewer so really anyone for or against or in between is on thier own path

    I think its good you support your own ideas - things are as they should be in that case ..

    I guess it comes down to some people speak up (for better or worse) and some people choose not to (also for better or worse) - up to you

    Dont need to care - but am glad you cared enough to put forward your own opinion one way or another

    both sides are afterall just parts of a bigger story ...




    Quote Originally Posted by Christian R View Post
    We do see things differently, I have been around for all of it.

    I just don't agree with the way you look at it or probably anyone else really.

    I don't really need to be told what is going on from one persons perceived reality because, like I said, I have been around; even before this forum.

    I just now watch with interest and support no one. I just try and look at it all from different view points and say mmmmmmm.

    It seems you are on some sort of personal mission against the NNA, I don't really care that much.

    People do things and it is not really up to me to judge.
    Last edited by rebelagainstthemachine; 15-09-16 at 08:30 PM.
    ďBut I donít want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
    "Oh, you canít help that," said the Cat: "weíre all mad here. Iím mad. Youíre mad."
    "How do you know Iím mad?" said Alice.
    "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldnít have come here.Ē
    Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland






    Comic Database: Steve Hughes... Offended?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHMoDt3nSHs











 

 
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