Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 20 of 20
Like Tree18Likes

Thread: RJ Reynolds IN FAVOUR of Taxing Vapor Products

  1. #11
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Sydney NSW
    Posts
    791
    Firstly, I dont make any ecig recommendations anymore. I point interested smokers to people who are professionals at finding the right device for the right smoker by handing them a Steamery business card.

    Secondly, I'm not the one calling for bans on products. Big Tobacco are the ones calling for bans.

    I would never support a ban on cigalikes. I'm more than confident that market forces alone are enough to destroy them. Just look at what happened to NJOY.

    Cigalikes don't infuriate me. What infuriates me are vapers who willingly ignore the fact that big tobacco companies are literally trying to remove mods, tanks and ejuice from the market in the most sneaky and subversive manner so that their patently owned cigalikes monopolises the market.

    If any other company, be it an aussie vendor or manufacturer did what Big Tobacco is doing we'd be all over them like shit on a blanket. If Evolve advocated to have all mech mods banned and that all ecigs should possess their computer chip, we've drop them like a tonne of bricks.

    But for some reason, many vapers seem to have a soft spot for Big Tobacco and are willing to let this shit slide. There's no excuse for this. Their lobbying tactics are reprehensible and no one should be making excuses for them, especially vapers.

    It shows that the tobacco companies are not willing to compete in this market. The fact that they have the money and resources to develop a great mod or buyout a popular mod company, but don't, is in my opinion, a clear indication that they do not want smokers defamiliarising themselves from the feel of smoking a real cigarette, and this is why their focus is on cigalikes.

    So I say screw Big Tobacco. And screw their patented product. These companies have not earned my respect as trustworthy members of the vaping community.

    Until Big Tobacco advocates for all vaping products, including loose juice, refillable tanks, lower taxes, and help maintain a reasonably low barrier to market entry (including opposing the FDA deeming regulations), I'll remain highly suspicious of their motives.
    Last edited by PurpleVapes; 16-02-17 at 12:04 PM.
    AllyP likes this.

  2. #12
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    SA
    Posts
    4,839
    RIP 22.12.2016

  3. #13
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Sydney NSW
    Posts
    791
    well I wouldnt have to be if we were a little more critical of Big Tobacco whenever they pulled this kind of crap.

    But anyway. I've said what I've had to say. I'm done for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianS View Post

  4. #14
    CMB
    CMB is offline
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    3,927
    I've not seen any vapers with a soft spot for big tobacco, in fact I have seen quite the opposite. Maybe I am missing something?

    Not real sure what you aee suggesting we do about it. Boycott their products? We already do as a whole. Tell people their products don't work? We do that too.

    March on their offices? Blow up their offices? Assassinate their CEO's? What should we do about it that will be effective?

  5. #15
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Sydney NSW
    Posts
    791
    Quote Originally Posted by CMB View Post
    I've not seen any vapers with a soft spot for big tobacco, in fact I have seen quite the opposite. Maybe I am missing something?
    There's a creeping sentiment to turn a blind eye to Big Tobacco's tactics and focus solely on Big Pharma, mainly coming from the UK vapers.

    e.g : Stop blaming Big Tobacco - it's BIG PHARMA wants ecigs gone €” The sun also rises

    From the reviews on A Billion Lives, I gather there was very little mention of Big Tobacco's involvement in the TPD, even though some politicians mentioned that the tobacco companies played a major role behind the scenes in bringing the 30mg/mL limit which was voted on by the parliament, down to 20mg/mL during the commission negotiations.

    Quote Originally Posted by CMB View Post
    Not real sure what you aee suggesting we do about it. Boycott their products? We already do as a whole. Tell people their products don't work? We do that too...... What should we do about it that will be effective?
    I think, until the Big Tobacco companies stop lobbying for bans on ejuice and refillable tanks, we need to make it more apparent that Big Tobacco's products, while vapor products, are a separate category to mods and tanks.

    Emphasise Wells Fargo's categorization of the ecig market whenever we interact with the media or Government. That's not to say to advocate a ban on Big Tobacco's ecigs (that would be stooping to their level).

    Just that more emphasization of the diversity of vapor products needs to be made clear, and that not all ecigs are equal.

    But also, we need to stop Simon Chapman from being able demonise the entire ecig market simply because Big Tobacco companies have purchased one type of ecig.
    Last edited by PurpleVapes; 16-02-17 at 01:23 PM.

  6. #16
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    victoria
    Posts
    3,954
    Purple like them or loathe them BT are a part of the vaping community and the NRT community - that will not change no matter what happens- They are the ones behind both the nicotine you vape and the medical placebos you might have tried at some point.

    Like medical/ pharma (or even the TGA who happen to have an ABN number and strong ties to corporate medical) Their job naturally is to compete for as much market share as they can get.

    A pet snake or spider no matter how much you love them will at some point try and eat you because it is in their nature to bite. This is something I think you misjudge about most vapers who follow or read on the political side of vaping

    Its not that noone cares- most are cautious as they would and should be with any pet spider or snake

    The reason that perhaps you dont get the reaction you hope for is that your approach is one sided and frankly just wrong

    You attack cigalikes - the very thing that most people started on and some even still use- without consideration to personal choice in quitting and that vaping offers and also without consideration of what it means to anti vape advocates who would love to ban cigalikes and then nicotine and mods and other things

    You go on a rant about big tobacco but are silent on medical and pharma who also have a relationship with big tobacco who supply the NRTs and other products for the medical community (not just anti smoking related) - In some ways also you negate the fact that anti tobacco has a symbiotic relationship with big tobacco

    Big tobacco are not the only ones trying to patent products in the vaping community - but you never mention that either

    And there is more but I got home not long ago and am too tired for type words or mouth words - although I am happy to have a debate with you here on forum or in pm if you wish to clarify - just not tonight

    That being said

    Purple I admire your tenacity - its just that I dont think you have considered the whole picture in your approach and that is why you dont have the support or outrage you perhaps hope for

    Either way I wish you well - However I just cant find it in myself to support any bash this thing with pitchforks when it hasnt considered the full implication of the approach on either the local or wider vaping community or the overall vaping political landscape


    Be well



    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleVapes View Post
    Firstly, I dont make any ecig recommendations anymore. I point interested smokers to people who are professionals at finding the right device for the right smoker by handing them a Steamery business card.

    Secondly, I'm not the one calling for bans on products. Big Tobacco are the ones calling for bans.

    I would never support a ban on cigalikes. I'm more than confident that market forces alone are enough to destroy them. Just look at what happened to NJOY.

    Cigalikes don't infuriate me. What infuriates me are vapers who willingly ignore the fact that big tobacco companies are literally trying to remove mods, tanks and ejuice from the market in the most sneaky and subversive manner so that their patently owned cigalikes monopolises the market.

    If any other company, be it an aussie vendor or manufacturer did what Big Tobacco is doing we'd be all over them like shit on a blanket. If Evolve advocated to have all mech mods banned and that all ecigs should possess their computer chip, we've drop them like a tonne of bricks.

    But for some reason, many vapers seem to have a soft spot for Big Tobacco and are willing to let this shit slide. There's no excuse for this. Their lobbying tactics are reprehensible and no one should be making excuses for them, especially vapers.

    It shows that the tobacco companies are not willing to compete in this market. The fact that they have the money and resources to develop a great mod or buyout a popular mod company, but don't, is in my opinion, a clear indication that they do not want smokers defamiliarising themselves from the feel of smoking a real cigarette, and this is why their focus is on cigalikes.

    So I say screw Big Tobacco. And screw their patented product. These companies have not earned my respect as trustworthy members of the vaping community.

    Until Big Tobacco advocates for all vaping products, including loose juice, refillable tanks, lower taxes, and help maintain a reasonably low barrier to market entry (including opposing the FDA deeming regulations), I'll remain highly suspicious of their motives.
    How can the NNA AU claim to represent vapers if they don't bother to talk to all of them?
    If they dont talk and listen to the whole vaping community, how can they know what vapers want or need?
    If most of the vaping community is ignored- who do the NNA AU really represent?

  7. #17
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    SA
    Posts
    4,839
    By the end of this year purple will have his / her wish anyway
    BT will have a vaporising leaf contraption approved by the FDA and won't give 2 shits about an ecig
    RIP 22.12.2016

  8. #18
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    129
    Quote Originally Posted by BrianS View Post
    By the end of this year purple will have his / her wish anyway
    BT will have a vaporising leaf contraption approved by the FDA and won't give 2 shits about an ecig
    Dont they already exist "Herb Vaporizers"

  9. #19
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Mackay
    Posts
    4,899
    Quote Originally Posted by chris_vaper View Post
    Dont they already exist "Herb Vaporizers"
    Yes, but now BT will be marketing them. I think this is already a thing in Japan from what Schtoo was saying.

    It's not even new. RJ Reynolds had the "Eclipse" heat not burn product in the states around 1995 or '96 (over twenty years ago!) but it never caught on, possibly (and this is my thought only) because the battery technology was probably not good enough to support it. Newer battery technologies probably making it a better product.
    Last edited by fabricator4; 17-02-17 at 03:09 PM.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  10. #20
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Sydney NSW
    Posts
    791
    An update to this story.




    7% is generous.
    Last edited by PurpleVapes; 17-02-17 at 11:00 PM.

 

 
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3
Copyright © 2017 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
All times are GMT +11. The time now is 10:34 AM.