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Thread: Federal Inquiry into the use of electronic cigarettes and personal vaperisers.

  1. #21
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    I'm a vaper and a member of the NNA AU. I have no intention of asking the NNA AU if they think my submission is according to their principles and aims, because it's my submission, not theirs. I'm also confident that the NNA AU is OK with that.

    So to those thinking of making a submission, say what you like, a couple of paragraphs of personal story is invaluable. If you're not comfortable with addressing the terms of reference, completely ignore them and submit your story anyway. I reckon that personal stories are actually more compelling than dry, reasoned facts and statistics anyway. After the committee has read 2 or 3 such 'facts and graphs' submissions, they tend to blur into one. But personal stories of hardship stick in their minds.

    Spelling mistakes and incorrect use of grammar in personal submissions are not only OK, they help support that these are real words from real people that are really hurting from the silly rules on nicotine for tobacco harm reduction.

    Note that you can have parts of your submission redacted (blotted out from public view). If you're not comfortable with the general public knowing what you say (e.g. your neighbour who might anonymously dob you in to the Queensland gov.), the committee is likely to concede to your request to have it redacted. Names and addresses are pretty much a given. Other details if it seems relevant (e.g. admitting to possessing nicotine without a prescription).

    The only problem I've so far had with redactions is that my submission to the TGA on nicotine scheduling was heavily redacted against my wishes.

    As an aside, this inquiry would not have come to pass if the TGA had not been asked, and refused, to reschedule nicotine. The pollies are becoming convinced they need to take it out of the hands of the bloody bureaucrats to do what they (probably already) know is the right thing. But they need the words from people like us, in order to justify it in parliament.

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by FXVaper View Post
    2. It does concern me that by writing a submission, I am supporting a "framework" as proposed NNA-AU...
    No, you're not. No specific limit on nicotine strength has been suggested by the pollies that called for this inquiry. Suggest whatever level you think makes sense or, as I intend, never mention nicotine levels but just stress it should be legal to sell as a retail item and for us to possess.
    1ynne and FXVaper like this.

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  3. #23
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    Vaporific - I simply asked a question of the original poster or from JenJ not meant as an attack - no need for a defense by members or supporters - just a question- and I think for the sake of clarity and transparency - a fair one especially considering all things in my post asking it

    Also as a member or as a supporter- I dont think you are actually qualified to answer my question- especially considering the way the TGA thing (which is not on debate here) was simply dumped on members of the NNA AU and the wider vaping community without explanation and without anyone outside of the NNA AU 3 having any clue about anything until the deed by the 3 on the board was done and everyone was told to support or you are anti vape cause- we still dont know how 36mg among other things was arrived at

    Sorry vaporific - as much as i do like alot of your posts - My question is not for you this time

    If this inquiry was a thing by the NNA AU which donna the doctor and JenJ helped to create deliberately through strategy- and support from the wider vape community is being asked for by directly board members- Then transparency and openness must be seen to happen within the community

    If there is an issue about a simple question like I have asked and members and supporters of the NNA AU feel as they need to be on the defensive bc they feel their leaders who are posting relatively anonymously on this forum without being part of its community for a long time are being attacked in any way or form then perhaps the Official NNA AU unused locked thread is the way to go where they can appoint an official spokesperson or post as themselves more freely

    Either way I dont see the issue with JenJ or Nico and laughter answering the question in the thread that they have created and supported each others views in
    Last edited by rebelagainstthemachine; 29-05-17 at 04:28 AM.
    Support the closed autocratic NNA AU lobby group-
    Give money, sign and fill what we say then STFU- its called unity!

    You actually thought that your action & thoughts matter?Its "experts" only buddy
    Pfft don't like it?... go away and start your own
    All Hail the NNA AU vape overlords!
    Delete & block the negative! It never happened- its in the past MKAY?
    (or face members & supporters wrath & tears...)
    Infiltrate, Dominate & assimilate all unbelievers..Welcome to the new NNA AU echo chamber

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebelagainstthemachine View Post
    Sorry vaporific - as much as i do like alot of your posts..
    No need for apologies! In much the same way that I feel no need to apologise to you for what I post.

    Quote Originally Posted by rebelagainstthemachine View Post
    ..My question is not for you this time
    Just like my replies were not for you. They were for the people who are thinking about making a submission, but unsure. I'm convinced you have no intention of doing so, ..but feel free to prove me wrong by making one - it would make for interesting reading!
    charles Vaper and 1ynne like this.

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  5. #25
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    Lol vapor I do admire your tenacity!


    But still think these small things should be cleared up by the powers that be so there is no misunderstanding for or by anyone


    and I wasn't lying when I said I enjoy alot of your posts


    but now that we have established that we enjoy (even if not agree on some posts- at least I think thats what happened?) We really should chat more often.....

    You have a great day! I hope its filled with moments you enjoy
    Support the closed autocratic NNA AU lobby group-
    Give money, sign and fill what we say then STFU- its called unity!

    You actually thought that your action & thoughts matter?Its "experts" only buddy
    Pfft don't like it?... go away and start your own
    All Hail the NNA AU vape overlords!
    Delete & block the negative! It never happened- its in the past MKAY?
    (or face members & supporters wrath & tears...)
    Infiltrate, Dominate & assimilate all unbelievers..Welcome to the new NNA AU echo chamber

  6. #26
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    These comments are not directed at you FX, but I am using your post to answer these questions which a lot of people may have. If it gets a little ranty, I apologise.


    Quote Originally Posted by FXVaper View Post
    I am interested in a couple of points.

    1. How was the 36mg limit arrived at? I can't find an answer to that question, so if the NNA-AU folk could provide an answer, that would be great.
    As per the NNA submission, it was based on the LD50 lethal dose. This would make a 30ml bottle of 36mg/ml lower than the LD50 for an adult based on *current* research rather than the old one which is centuries out of date and wouldn't pass for science today (extremely small sample size, and far from conclusive evidence with no clear proof or consensus shown in the data.) I note that the TGA did not challenge this at all.

    It's also a value that policy makers are likely to feel comfortable with. Make no mistake here, they are highly unlikely to just allow industrial strengths to be sold over the counter at this point. I understand the arguments for some people needing to vape higher, and for DIY strengths, I really do. It's hard enough to get it onto the table at strengths that are higher than what is regularly sold over the counter in other countries (ie EU).

    2. It does concern me that by writing a submission, I am supporting a "framework" as proposed NNA-AU, which I know little about, and even less about how it was arrived at. So, some clarification would be appreciated.
    There is no framework. Just a lot of work that's gone into this for years trying to get politicians to move in the way that will benefit smokers in Australia, to give Australians the option of buying something that works.

    Whatever happens, it's not going to please everyone. Nowhere in the world has vaping legislation pleased everyone. UK probably has the best situation since Public Health are supporting it, but they currently have stupid sale and import restrictions on tank and bottle sizes.

    The point here is that it is now on the agenda politically. It was anyway but in a bad way with state legislation going for the throat, and if nothing was done the result would not be good for vaping - the states are doing everything in their power to ignore us and bring in bad policy that will cost lives.

    Now with the federal initiative to look at the real facts people are questioning whether they should support it? For heaven's sake people, wake the F up! Of course you should be doing everything you can to support it. This has happened way sooner than anyone could have hoped for, and is a golden opportunity to influence public health policy at the federal level in Australian. Get your submissions in!

    Don't turn this into a sh!! fight about who's doing it, who said what, who's doing what, and what you think about them. Also note that this is not an advocacy group that is looking at it. It's an initiative amongst Federal members, prompted by the situation in Australia, academia, some members of the public, and lobbyists and groups of several different types. Many people are behind this, but this is your chance to influence what happens in the next few months. Don't squander it.

    Learn from the mistakes made in other countries: if we fight about what to do, it makes it that much less likely that we will get anywhere at all. If you can't support something, then by all means start a group, announce your own policies, lobby MPs... whatever you can. The more approaches we have, the more people will be able to find something they can support, and the less they will be able to ignore us.

    I say "us" not "them". We all want things to change in a positive way. Spreading negativity about any group's efforts is not the way. Who gives an F who is supporting this or might have pushed for it? We have to stop the slide the state governments have us going down. We NEED legislation that removes vaping from current smoking legislation, and we NEED nicotine e-liquids to be as easily available as cigarettes.

    Now... Go right your submission.

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Sorry, that did get ranty didn't it. I just can't believe that I've watched this unfold for the last four years, and the best we can come up with in Australia is the same old Bullcheddar that has happened to advocacy in every other country. What's wrong with us?
    Last edited by fabricator4; 29-05-17 at 10:52 AM.
    Noe, margyb, studiovape and 19 others like this.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.


  7. #27
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    1000 likes! ^^^^^^

  8. #28
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    Yep, what Fab said.

    Send in your letters everyone. Sit down with the people you've converted and help them send in letters of their own, especially elderly folks who might not be comfortable submitting online.

    If you don't know what to say, may I suggest just sending in a paragraph that covers:

    -your age and employment status
    -how long you smoked for/how long you have been Vaping for/ how long since you last smoked cigarettes
    -what other methods you tried to quit smoking
    -how Vaping has changed your life (ie. what health benefits, financial benefits, improvement in the way you think about yourself etc have you noticed?)

  9. #29
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    Remember a few things when writing a document:

    1. Use paragraphing

    and for those typing a document

    2. Use at least 1 1/2x line spacing, and preferably double spacing.
    3. Run it through a spell check
    4. Use a suitable font, not one of those fancy ones. Suggested are Calibri, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial or Times New Roman

    After all, if you are going to make the effort to write a document, you want the best possible chance that someone will read every word and gain an understanding, not skim over it because it's just too damn hard to read (you just have to look at some forum posts to understand this).
    Last edited by gtadmin; 29-05-17 at 12:37 PM.
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  10. #30
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    Our politicians are not going to change laws without learning about it first. They rely on committees to advise Parliament before action is taken. The TGA knocked back the application so now the next step is a committee. I don't care how much involved the NNA was to get to this point, this is the one big chance to change things. Our states are going against E-cigs to undo that the Feds have to take action. If they decide on no action then we will be left with how it is, or perhaps worse.

    I personally don't care how much the NNA was involved as it is now irrelevant. The Committee has started as have I writing my submission.
    Last cigarette, 11:00 AM 11th March 2015.

 

 
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