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Thread: Federal Inquiry into the use of electronic cigarettes and personal vaperisers.

  1. #321
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    One thing I strongly disagree with, is that Vaping isn't broken - These days it is - with crazy laws popping up from state to state.

    Better hope we don't get a Federal law even worse than we have now, this is only an enquiry, governments hold enquires when they don't want to act or they have a predetermined agenda, then again nothing will happen until the TGA can be convinced vaping is safe no-matter what the result of any enquiry and that's the key to any sort of recognition or acceptance of vaping.
    Fatman, rodbam and Wombats1 like this.
    Im going to create a disturbance in your mind.............Billy Thorpe

  2. #322
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    Agree fatman - but the thing is that the vaping community will remain floating and rudderless until someone actually bites the bullet and simply asks and actually listens to and responds to what vapers want without passing judgment

    To date - noone has done this and any attempt to ask for it has been met with derision or omgerd you are a bad person who doesnt care about vaping- what about the chillens!?


    Decisions have been made for us - we have been told and goaded into writing for last ditch attempts like sex parties, low nic TGA and now this ..

    No real attempt has been made to get support of non vapers average joe blog on the street and heaven help us if there is a picture of a cloud! Out come the pitchforks if someone shows an interest in vaping that is outside of quitting smoking or refuses to be politically active - when in fact we should probably be embracing them as part of the community

    In this way perhaps we are stuck in the past - but it would take more than leaders of various groups being surreptitious and playing surprise on the community it claims to represent (and there has been more than one group like this)

    Until there is a change in the way political vapers treat other vapers and until someone is prepared to ask the hard questions and actually include diversity and difference within the community and actually think outside the box in an inclusive community kind of way - things are going to stay the same and are going to be met with the same cynicism and desperation we are seeing now

    Afterall - how can you change the minds of others about vaping or change the legal world if you refuse to accept or even appear to resent those you are a part of in the first place?




    Quote Originally Posted by Fatman View Post
    ... that the future of vaping IS being made every day by every person doing it, as it has since the first little vape shop in China started flogging Ruyans's & DSE's to us Westerners .... its not a matter of being stuck in the past , putting a label on it like that is just another bit of passive-aggressive thrown in the mix

    What I think vaping is facing here & now, is "natural considered evolution" vs "driven direction" ... one has worked exceedingly well in the past and evolved the community into a phenomenon and the other hasn't ( in my very limited opinion)
    Problem is a lot of the driven brigade cant see that .. "its broken and we can fix it " is the mantra , but it was never broken, it was evolving until a combination of internal and external forces came to bear...

    Considered evolution however is probably now to be stripped from the community and it doesn't really matter at this point who by and how it got to this stage... but like I said originally if one refuses learning from the past , then one is doomed to repeat it ... I certainly don't have the answers , but there is a chance someone will at some point and then it remains to be seen if "driven" or "considered" is the future ...

    Again I need to stress this is just me speaking and I have done a lot of it I suppose, but that's part of this considered evolution which frees people to enact their own choices ... for a rudderless ship, ....damn ..... vaping has done well for itself up til now
    gert, 1ynne and blox4u like this.
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  3. #323
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    From reading of their experiences, most long term vapers are naturally inclined to self titrate. I think what Dr. Farsolinos meant was unnaturally forcing nic level reduction is undesirable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wombats1 View Post
    Lowering your nic levels means we self titrate, we then consume more juice, Dr K says this is undesirable.
    AllyP, Wombats1 and Jemor like this.

  4. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by FXVaper View Post
    From reading of their experiences, most long term vapers are naturally inclined to self titrate. I think what Dr. Farsolinos meant was unnaturally forcing nic level reduction is undesirable.

    Yes also in response to TPD like controls on %nic, however I stand by the original statement, study I read was clear that lowering your nic leads to an increase in juice consumption, this is also where some of the excess aldehydes have been found. ( increased juice volumes = increase in aldehydes.)

    Anyway I am OT, apologies.

    I have created my draft and am procrastinating.
    Last edited by Wombats1; 26-06-17 at 01:23 AM. Reason: Shocking grammar (and spelling)
    AllyP likes this.
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  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatman View Post


    4. The appropriate regulatory framework for E-cigarettes and personal vaporisers in Australia;

    IMO this report is all about Point 4 ... ( its often the tacked on bit that is the main subject )

    .
    Wtf.....The regulatory framework for E-cigarettes and personal vaporisers , already exists. Its not rocket science. The same as the sale and distribution of Tobacco products and Alcoholic Beverages.

    Not to be sold to minors. Sell it through whatever outlets that now sell the above, regulate the sale the same as tobacco and alcohol products when it comes to nicotine e-juice.

    When it comes to E-cigarettes and personal vaporisers these should be sold through specialty shops where there are trained staff to help newbies to vaping to understand the mod or vape. Lets face it, I have read some of the user manuals that come with the mods, the translations into our language at times is horrid. Also when it comes to Mech Mods, experienced staff should be on hand to guide newbies about their use.

    The other issue I have at present is with labeling of e-juice, at present nearly every e-juice that I have purchased in Au without nic and just about every concentrate for DIY does not tell me what preservatives, colors or any other harmful stuff could be in it. All I read is the PG/VG blend and the flavor. How do I know what the heck I am vaping.

    I am also quite cynical FM, and I think there is already a pre determined outcome, in the negative. You are quite right, that apart from a small group of vapers in Australia scattered all over Australia, I do not think the politicians are to worried about their votes and boiled down, its all the pollies think about is being re-elected to their lurks and perks jobs. Yeah maybe Nic juice if passed may cost a tad more but I certainly hope not at much as stinkies.

    Just look at the media reports of ram raids, burglaries, muggings for a damned stinky. The people in the low economic bracket that would never think of doing crime are now doing it for Christsakes, all for a blasted fag.

    If the government was serious about Tobacco Harm Reduction, then all the current NRT products legally available for a price, should be free as is that stuff that Heroin addicts take I think its called Methadone not sure. Addicts get it for free at clinics and hospitals. Yet smokers have to pay for the NRT shite. Dunno if its true or false but I hear that E-cigarettes and personal vaporisers are on the NHS in the UK. Pigs might fly before that happens in Au.

    Australian Government interested in Tobacco Harm Reduction Bullshite!!!!!! If one believes that they are, they may as well believe in Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy.
    Lest in self defence it be,
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  6. #326
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    Yes Fox I read that ecigs are available on the NHS with an easy to get doctors prescription. I don't think the NHS will give you a 200w 2 battery mod though:-)
    gert, gtadmin and AllyP like this.
    Regards
    Rod



  7. #327
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    Good Afternoon
    Last edited by margyb; 30-06-17 at 03:41 PM.
    Fatman, MrGruffy, AllyP and 2 others like this.

  8. #328
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    I'm not sure if I should throw my hat back in here or not....but I will.

    After being away yesterday and last night it sorta seems like an explosion in here and I feel like I'm mostly responsible for that.

    I need to say.... I had/have no intentions of upsetting anyone. I do sincerely apologise to all if I did.

    My only objective is to get the word out about the inquiry...nothing more. It's up to those who then know about it to make their own mind up.

    Being a newbie at all this I am still very cross that, because of current laws in our wonderful country, I have only just learned about vaping and the benefits to smokers (myself mainly) it brings. I could've known about this years ago if only the LAWS were different when I bought my first cig-a-like and then be told it didn't have nicotine in it because it was illegal. I was totally flabbergasted at this when I was still buying smokes from the same tobacconist. I still tried them though, because I thought I could give up without nicotine. Obviously that didn't work and they went in the bin.

    Now only 2 months ago I accidentally find you can get nicotine, then again flabbergasted that I still couldn't get it here, but had to send my money to someone overseas that I didn't (and still don't) know, let alone know what was in the stuff or by whom or how it was made. Eventually finding Nicopharm, which is where I bought my first lot from only to realise they may be ripping me off with their prices as they are dearer than importing even with higher postage costs. That cost difference could be because of lack of competition too, another good reason to me to allow nicotine back in this country legally.

    Anyway, The point I'm trying to make is that it should never have been illegal in the first place whilst ever there were cigarettes or patches, gum, etc freely on sale.

    My views on vendor support? I'm sorry that will not change as I have always personally left a business for similar issues. That is my prerogative. I walk with my dollars and buy from those who can and do help me, the customer/consumer the most.

    I'm just going to point out here that if I hadn't found this forum I would be still smoking because it's you good people who have helped me through what I was seeing as a nightmare, so thank you all sincerely. Without you all I would still be smoking until the laws changed or I was dead and the later would probably come first.

    "He climbs highest who helps another up." Zig Ziglar
    margyb, gtadmin, Fatman and 2 others like this.
    Jemor


  9. #329
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    Oh...BTW... because of the myriad of pages you all had me read through today I forgot to check my tank and experienced my first (and hope only) dry hit today... so just wanted to thank you all for that experience also... LOL

    I guess I've just been initiated!!
    margyb, Fatman, rodbam and 1 others like this.
    Jemor


  10. #330
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    YAY and delicious for me. I submitted my submission today. I also did give my full name and address, did not give a hoot. Watch for headlines "QLD woman arrested for using e'Liquid with Nicotine. Vaping whilst trying to be hand-cuffed" hahahaha.
    Noe, margyb, gtadmin and 2 others like this.
    ""Tootle Puffer" on Starter Kits.

 

 
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