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Thread: Federal Inquiry into the use of electronic cigarettes and personal vaperisers.

  1. #691
    emu
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    I'll just give up vaping when I run out and snuff instead if that happens.

  2. #692
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    Snuff or snus?
    emu likes this.

  3. #693
    emu
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    snuff for sure

  4. #694
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    Emu! You spelled snus wrong!





    *jks...


    Quote Originally Posted by emu View Post
    snuff for sure
    fabricator4 and emu like this.
    NNA AU and general vape advocacy in Australia summed up-
    There is nothing to see here- it has nothing to do with you or vapers - Its not your business...
    Secrecy for the greater good... Enemies are everywhere

    "If you see something ...Say say nothing...
    Then drink to forget ..."
    One of us... one of us...one of us....

  5. #695
    emu
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebelagainstthemachine View Post
    Emu! You spelled snus wrong!

    *jks...
    I can't talk with my mouth full, maybe I should use it more haha...
    Last edited by emu; 13-08-17 at 09:55 AM.

  6. #696
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    I kind of disagree, and I'll offer another opinion. I doubt this will pass in any form. Why?

    Politician's are driven by the polls and the internal workings of their party. Smoking/smokers are disliked. Vaping looks like smoking, ergo vapers will be disliked. Public opinion of smokers is very low, therefore, no need for the pollies to be risking their seat by voting yes. What needs to happen for it to pass, if the Bill moves to a vote, given that Greens are a NO, Labour is a NO? DL has not enough votes and the LIB/NATS are being torn apart over leadership issues, so YES unlikely there. The Pollies can soothe their souls by stating that we had an Inquiry and listened to the evidence, but I can't see the numbers to get the votes. Suspect it will die a quiet death.

    Quote Originally Posted by rebelagainstthemachine View Post
    Meh TPD aside - vapers should be held accountable too in Australia and quite frankly vapers in Australia deserve what they get in regards to the 20mg limit - The push for the last year or so from advocates and doctors had been for 36mg in 50mg bottles cause 'they' wont let us ask for more and alot of Aussie signatures have supported this over time in the naive belief that thats all there is, we have to rush and things can be fixed later

    While tea and coffee has been sipped behind closed doors, leaving average Joe vaper out because of experts, the first rule of negotiation has been ignored - Ask for more so you can negotiate down - well the bar was set low at 36mg so there should be no surprises when buddy guy DL set the bar at 20mgs

    Vapers also put their faith in more vocal pollies like DL and lobby group reps without considering strategies around who those kinds of people represent- like the IPA and the IEA and various ultra conservative political groups who in turn represent corporate interests

    People ran to the support of Alegra from delicious monsta - because vendors and 'regulation' is needed (protectionism of industry served up as vapers rights)

    They supported Aussie doctors and groups who never really consulted the whole vaping community on decisions who called for low nicotine(let alone be open and honest about how they came to their numbers)

    Aside from group agendas and the occasional vendor popping up The glories of things like Nicopharm have been sung and defended

    and the need for just getting the vape message out there in the media and social media has been laughed down over time bc the 'experts' and official vape advocate groups (more than one group) members' will do it behind closed doors

    Meanwhile we sit here blaming the media - when we have missed golden opportunity after golden opportunity to utilize the press and the public and the whole vape community - preferring to rely on those with agendas working for the whole communities greater good



    I can see it now - if DL thing goes through - Some will claim victory about nicotine being legal (Even though DIYers and those needing high nic will miss out) And some will sit around squawking about the virtues of those who brought in experts that helped call for low nic

    If it doesnt - we will sit around crying about the corruption of the press and the government


    The way I be seeing it what ever happens - its well deserved in terms of the 20mg and no surprise- (Unless it does get raised to DIY levels) - 20mg regardless of being innefective for many and not cost effective for others- is good for protectionism of both BP and BT as well as stand out vendors who can invest more into their businesses financially to meet inevitable legislative costs


    In negotiations of any sort - the rule is to ask for more so you can negotiate down - In Australian vapers case organised Australian vapers started low and they left no room to negotiate lower - Nor have they utilized their own community or the press or social media effectively .... Too many agendas - not enough consideration for the whole picture

    Rather than fight the system they have chosen to try and slot themselves in out of some misguided sense of desperation and loyalty to the chillens

    Its that simple and so deserve at least part of the blame in how this is all going


    Will DL be able to pass this? I think probably.. but then I have never doubted nicotine becoming legal one way or another at some point .. My question has always been how it will become legal

  7. #697
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    There is an alternative in the positive in favor for vaping in the political spheres

    1.) There is a slowly growing public sympathy for smokers- Not least of all because of being stupidly over taxed and throwing addicted smokers (who are mostly disadvantaged) into poverty and situations of stress

    2.) On the ground organisations and individual workers working in harm reduction are starting to more and more recognize the value of vaping over smoking (but not quite enough yet to mobilse properly- also new gag orders are coming down for govt workers which will silence some further - these kinds of orders tend to filter into NGOs as a matter of course )

    There are even splits happening in anti vape orgs like the cancer council - with workers breaking away to sprout pro vape messages

    3.) Australia is being slowly seen as backwards in policy regarding smoking (and other) harm minimization and reduction - esp with country after country allowing vaping and now snus as well -Hell even india may go pro vape shortly if they havent already

    Australias catch cry tends to be about being progressive whereas being anti vaping is anti progression - oh and anti free market/ choice plays a part here too - (hard line right wing who are dominating atm - both lib and lab are likely to add pressure to pro vaping)

    4.) Am reading alot about how people are starting to lose faith in the opinions of public health over all - they are too absolute in exercising their power - so that is also a positive for vaping at some point

    5.) There is an emerging underground/mainstream vape culture - which is inadvertently helping to promote vaping to the public- even if govt turns back now they know they will have to address vaping as a legality at some point

    Keeping in mind the kinds of budgets ANTZ, BT and BP have - I suspect alot of what we are reading about the demonization of smokers is a bit hyped and different from the reality with the guy on the street

    So even if not now - I still think it will become legal - esp if the public are continually informed about vaping- but who knows? Maybe you are right ...

    *shrug




    Quote Originally Posted by FXVaper View Post
    I kind of disagree, and I'll offer another opinion. I doubt this will pass in any form. Why?

    Politician's are driven by the polls and the internal workings of their party. Smoking/smokers are disliked. Vaping looks like smoking, ergo vapers will be disliked. Public opinion of smokers is very low, therefore, no need for the pollies to be risking their seat by voting yes. What needs to happen for it to pass, if the Bill moves to a vote, given that Greens are a NO, Labour is a NO? DL has not enough votes and the LIB/NATS are being torn apart over leadership issues, so YES unlikely there. The Pollies can soothe their souls by stating that we had an Inquiry and listened to the evidence, but I can't see the numbers to get the votes. Suspect it will die a quiet death.
    Last edited by rebelagainstthemachine; 13-08-17 at 02:33 AM.
    emu, FXVaper and Pantoea like this.
    NNA AU and general vape advocacy in Australia summed up-
    There is nothing to see here- it has nothing to do with you or vapers - Its not your business...
    Secrecy for the greater good... Enemies are everywhere

    "If you see something ...Say say nothing...
    Then drink to forget ..."
    One of us... one of us...one of us....

  8. #698
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    Quote Originally Posted by FXVaper View Post
    I kind of disagree, and I'll offer another opinion. I doubt this will pass in any form. Why?

    Politician's are driven by the polls and the internal workings of their party. Smoking/smokers are disliked. Vaping looks like smoking, ergo vapers will be disliked. Public opinion of smokers is very low, therefore, no need for the pollies to be risking their seat by voting yes. What needs to happen for it to pass, if the Bill moves to a vote, given that Greens are a NO, Labour is a NO? DL has not enough votes and the LIB/NATS are being torn apart over leadership issues, so YES unlikely there. The Pollies can soothe their souls by stating that we had an Inquiry and listened to the evidence, but I can't see the numbers to get the votes. Suspect it will die a quiet death.
    I think you miss the point that the Libs are well and truly starting to change their stance on vaping. This awareness is happening in a climate of ANTZ anti vape in Australia, so the truth is slowing winning, but it is surprising how fast it's starting to snowball in only six months.

    Here's Lib senator James Patterson on 3AW. Yes he's showing his lack of knowledge quite a bit it does show they are starting to "get it".

    captive and Pantoea like this.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  9. #699
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    Quote Originally Posted by fabricator4 View Post
    I think you miss the point that the Libs are well and truly starting to change their stance on vaping. This awareness is happening in a climate of ANTZ anti vape in Australia, so the truth is slowing winning, but it is surprising how fast it's starting to snowball in only six months.

    Here's Lib senator James Patterson on 3AW. Yes he's showing his lack of knowledge quite a bit it does show they are starting to "get it".

    For some one who is not really up with vaping he actually did a very good job there.
    fabricator4 likes this.

  10. #700
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    Has anybody signed up to the LD's campaign?
    I'm thinking about it.

    Link: Vaping

 

 

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