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Thread: Opinion piece

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    Opinion piece

    Vaping laws: Government members announce opposite responses in 60 seconds

    Sorry if a repost

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    Cat
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    Wow it's so refreshing to hear some commonsense being bandied about!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat View Post
    Wow it's so refreshing to hear some commonsense being bandied about!
    Yes it is a very good article .............. BUT

    As reported the first response is the official federal government line. This is what they have decided and that is the way it is.

    The second response is about a committee that is going to report back to the federal government about vaping in general, yes I have read the terms of reference and even thought about doing a submission as a lot of others here are going to do.

    I have decided I will not bother.

    If you are wondering why?

    I have been directly involved with the process involving public inquiries twice now and I can tell you they have both been a complete waste of time.
    All government inquiries always end up supporting the governments views or policy objectives, regardless of facts and/or public opinions. We already have the federal governments official line on vaping as quoted by the federal health minister so you can almost certainly guarantee that the committee results will back this and leave it up to the individual states to keep making a mess of everything. If challenged they will be able to hold up the official independent federal committee report and say that they looked into every aspect of the case and did what the independent committee decided.

    AND I REALLY HOPE I AM WRONG ABOUT THIS!!!!!!!
    Last edited by captive; 30-05-17 at 11:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captive View Post
    Yes it is a very good article .............. BUT

    As reported the first response is the official federal government line. This is what they have decided and that is the way it is.

    The second response is about a committee that is going to report back to the federal government about vaping in general, yes I have read the terms of reference and even thought about doing a submission as a lot of others here are going to do.

    I have decided I will not bother.

    If you are wondering why?

    I have been directly involved with the process involving public inquiries twice now and I can tell you they have both been a complete waste of time.
    All government inquiries always end up supporting the governments views or policy objectives, regardless of facts and/or public opinions. We already have the federal governments official line on vaping as quoted by the federal health minister so you can almost certainly guarantee that the committee results will back this and leave it up to the individual states to keep making a mess of everything. If challenged they will be able to hold up the official independent federal committee report and say that they looked into every aspect of the case and did what the independent committee decided.

    AND I REALLY HOPE I AM WRONG ABOUT THIS!!!!!!!
    Well if i gave up something because I have tried twice before, not a piece of wood would have split and many winters would have seen me cold.

    Can you clarify your direct involvement? I dont mean disclosing your Identity - just wondering what your role was?

    I get that taking the time to submit submissions and then see the efforts unrewarded is frustrating but there is always the chance this one could be the one.

    Things are going down the Gurgler for Vapers in Australia in a way we haven't seen before - we have chance to be heard - could it fail? of course it could - but could will be a reality for certain if we dont at least try.

    and yep most of us here will continue to be fine and find or know a way around things but we need to step outside of our comfy box and consider smokers not in the same position.
    its not always about us.
    Last edited by AllyP; 31-05-17 at 12:18 AM.
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    emu
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    It's the first step for the government to rake in the missing money from the decline in tobacco sales, before you know it vaping will be as expensive as smoking. Legal but heavily regulated with the trade off for harm reduction being monetary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllyP View Post
    Well if i gave up something because I have tried twice before, not a piece of wood would have split and many winters would have seen me cold.

    Can you clarify your direct involvement? I dont mean disclosing your Identity - just wondering what your role was?

    I get that taking the time to submit submissions and then see the efforts unrewarded is frustrating but there is always the chance this one could be the one.

    Things are going down the Gurgler for Vapers in Australia in a way we haven't seen before - we have chance to be heard - could it fail? of course it could - but could will be a reality for certain if we dont at least try.

    and yep most of us here will continue to be fine and find or know a way around things but we need to step outside of our comfy box and consider smokers not in the same position.
    its not always about us.
    Ally I am not saying it is wrong to try.

    Both of my involvements were with the state government inquiries as a stake holder. I was for 30+ years self employed I am now driving a truck 50 hours a week.

    The first was directly with the department involved which ended up with all sorts of assurances that nothing was going to change end result was within 12 months around 500 people either directly or indirectly out of work, a lot of compensation claims in courts and the end of a successful but small export industry in victoria. (done under Jeff Kennett Liberals)

    The second was done very differently. It involved a private consulting firm doing the "independant report" and all commercial stake holders being forced, $500 fine if you didn't, to fill in a questionnaire full of loaded questions designed to give the desired results. For example one question asked if the government decided to buy you out what would be a fair value. That section of the final report stated that there was 95% agreement within the industry to a buy out by the government. It may not be a surprise that final report was that the government could continue with the policies they had with full backing of industry. (done under Steve Bracks Labor)

    I may be wrong about this current committee objectives but I have seen these things in action and you should never doubt they are always going to come out in favour of government policies. That said they may be about to change their position and are using this committee report to justify the change.
    Last edited by captive; 31-05-17 at 01:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captive View Post
    Ally I am not saying it is wrong to try.

    Both of my involvements were with the state government inquiries as a stake holder. I was for 30+ years self employed I am now driving a truck 50 hours a week.

    The first was directly with the department involved which ended up with all sorts of assurances that nothing was going to change end result was within 12 months around 500 people either directly or indirectly out of work, a lot of compensation claims in courts and the end of a successful but small export industry in victoria.

    The second was done very differently. It involved a private consulting firm doing the "independant report" and all commercial stake holders being forced, $500 fine if you didn't, to fill in a questionnaire full of loaded questions designed to give the desired results. For example one question asked if the government decided to buy you out what would be a fair value. That section of the final report stated that there was 95% agreement within the industry to a buy out by the government. It may not be a surprise that final report was that the government could continue with the policies they had with full backing of industry.

    I may be wrong about this current committee objectives but I have seen these things in action and you should never doubt they are always going to come out in favour of government policies. That said they may be about to change their position and are using this committee report to justify the change.
    Ah, Ok - well yes that sucks big time and I feel for you - However this is a very different inquiry and we know at least two members of the committee are pro Vaping. There are no guarantees but as things currently stand - it cant get much worse for Vapers here in Oz - its kinda like we have nothing to lose and a heap to gain but I hear where you are coming from
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu View Post
    It's the first step for the government to rake in the missing money from the decline in tobacco sales, before you know it vaping will be as expensive as smoking. Legal but heavily regulated with the trade off for harm reduction being monetary.
    Personally I dont care if Vaping costs the same as smoking - for me it was never about the money and more about my life but in answer to above - that wont happen, its just scaremongering.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllyP View Post
    Ah, Ok - well yes that sucks big time and I feel for you - However this is a very different inquiry and we know at least two members of the committee are pro Vaping. There are no guarantees but as things currently stand - it cant get much worse for Vapers here in Oz - its kinda like we have nothing to lose and a heap to gain but I hear where you are coming from
    I really do hope your right on this not so much for myself but for all the others who it would really help. I just dont have any trust at all for politicians or our government
    gert and AllyP like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captive View Post
    I really do hope your right on this not so much for myself but for all the others who it would really help. I just dont have any trust at all for politicians or our government
    Lol, there is no right or wrong ... just hope.
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