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Thread: New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

  1. #1
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    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    I became aware of a thread at ECF 2 days ago, and have been working my way slowly through the ensuing postfest that has followed.

    We tend to live in our own forum quite a lot of the time, and im sure a high percentage of people here have never visited ECF.

    One shouldnt ever see it as a replacement for AVF, for one it doesnt have CrissCrosses excellent (and bonkers Bingo), but as an additional resource.
    As it is the oldest ecig forum and attracts, like here, a very varied userbase, sometimes it is a great additional resource.

    Every now and then you may see one of us refer to a post there, or reference members there, notably the famous Mooch, he of the battery knowledge.

    This is one of those every now and then links to an ECF thread. Because i think its important to at least be aware of.

    Whenever theres the hint of a (perceived) safety issue with vaping, theres a tendency to release the hounds, as we tend to get defensive about our
    new found tobacco-less lifestyle in vaping. But at least in the early stages of this particular info, it doesnt seem as though it can be dismissed
    offhand. The source is not the usual bunch of antis we deal with and cant be dismissed offhand.

    Firstly, before reading this, you should know that i sought opinions on if this could/should be posted, and then how.

    Most importantly this link is only provided for informational purposes.

    Some concerns about posting it were:

    * Would it foster a negative discussion between people on differing types of hardware, and tc and non-tc vapers in the forum,
    and the way they chose to use it.

    * Would it foster negative discussion on the perceived safety of vaping

    The answer to both of those is:

    It is up to each individual to choose to visit the link and whether they agree or disagree with the content/opinions therein.
    We dont want to see people being vilified (anymore than we normally do in jest aka cloud broz vs tootle puffers) for choosing
    the gear they use or the way they use it.

    No one here on AVF has ever claimed that vaping is 100% safe, i know anytime that sentiment has raised its head, older cooler
    heads have made a point of pointing out not only that vaping isnt 100% safe, there isnt any long term research for one, and
    that based on what we currently know, its around 95% safer than smoking according to the Royal College of Physicians in the UK's
    report from late last year. Even with the currently perceived/accepted 95% from that report, one must accept that that number
    may change over time.

    If we could avoid those possible flash points, and approach the linked info as purely informational, that would be great.

    We're here to help each other avoid harm from not only tobacco, which is why we're vaping in the first place, but also to, where
    possible, to make vaping safer. The community has a great track record on asking the hard questions and monitoring research in their
    own best interests, and acting upon it where possible or where the user wishes to, and this should be just another avenue for us doing
    just that.

    As the original post im linking to at ECF is over 190 pages long, not only have a lot of opinions been covered, therefore probably alleviating
    any of the concerns we have beign replicated here, but its also probably the best place for any thoughts/opinions of your own...and to avoid
    duplicating the thread traffic here.

    As earlier, linking people to the thread, its mainly for informational purposes, a means to have people inform themselves, and is also
    a good example of arming yourself instead of having others disseminate an opinion, as much as we rely on and respect peoples opinions
    on here in a wide variety of areas, the great bulk of us are not research scientists. Safety is not something where one should have an
    an insular viewpoint often presented in some forums as our only reference.

    And so onto the link:

    https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...uffers.791711/

    My only personal comment on this so far is that i wish people to be as safe as they can, and to also have the freedom to make their own
    choices when it comes to risk.

    Some other points made by other people before i posted this are that the compounds noted in the video/thread are naturally occurring in normal life
    and broken down quite quickly in most circumstances.

    But, and ill quote directly from a PM i received earlier today: "limiting your exposure to any toxic substance is a good thing as much as practicable", and
    i quote it because it says it better than i could have.
    Last edited by stylemessiah; 21-06-17 at 12:53 AM.
    Stylemessiah: Prince of all things small and whispery. Abhorrer of shoutiness. Shunner of all vigorousities.

    Pushing back against the vendor wall, one damn stupid post at a time...

    Not on as many ignore lists as you think....

    Handy shopping links:
    Mods With Issues (Often On Discounted Flash Sale) Last Updated 13/10/17

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by stylemessiah View Post
    I became aware of at thread at ECF 2 days ago, and have been working my way slowly through the ensuing postfest that has followed.

    We tend to live in our own forum quite a lot of the time, and im sure a high percentage of people here have never visited ECF.

    One shouldnt ever see it as a replacement for AVF, for one it doesnt have CrissCrosses excellent (and bonkers Bingo), but as an additional resource.
    As it is the oldest ecig forum and attracts, like here, a very varied userbase, sometimes it is a great additional resource.

    Every now and then you may see one of us refer to a post there, or reference members there, notably the famous Mooch, he of the battery knowledge.

    This is one of those every now and then links to an ECF thread. Because i think its important to at least be aware of.

    Whenever theres the hint of a (perceived) safety issue with vaping, theres a tendency to release the hounds, as we tend to get defensive about our
    new found tobacco-less lifestyle in vaping. But at least in the early stages of this particular info, it doesnt seem as though it can be dismissed
    offhand. The source is not the usual bunch of antis we deal with and cant be dismissed offhand.

    Firstly, before reading this, you should know that i sought opinions on if this could/should be posted, and then how.

    Most importantly this link is only provided for informational purposes.

    Some concerns about posting it were:

    * Would it foster a negative discussion between people on differing types of hardware, and tc and non-tc vapers in the forum,
    and the way they chose to use it.

    * Would it foster negative discussion on the perceived safety of vaping

    The answer to both of those is:

    It is up to each individual to choose to visit the link and whether they agree or disagree with the content/opinions therein.
    We dont want to see people being vilified (anymore than we normally do in jest aka cloud broz vs tootle puffers) for choosing
    the gear they use or the way they use it.

    No one here on AVF has ever claimed that vaping is 100% safe, i know anytime that sentiment has raised its head, older cooler
    heads have made a point of pointing out not only that vaping isnt 100% safe, there isnt any long term research for one, and
    that based on what we currently know, its around 95% safer than smoking according to the Royal College of Physicians in the UK's
    report from late last year. Even with the currently perceived/accepted 95% from that report, one must accept that that number
    may change over time.

    If we could avoid those possible flash points, and approach the linked info as purely informational, that would be great.

    We're here to help each other avoid harm from not only tobacco, which is why we're vaping in the first place, but also to, where
    possible, to make vaping safer. The community has a great track record on asking the hard questions and monitoring research in their
    own best interests, and acting upon it where possible or where the user wishes to, and this should be just another avenue for us doing
    just that.

    As the original post im linking to at ECF is over 190 pages long, not only have a lot of opinions been covered, therefore probably alleviating
    any of the concerns we have beign replicated here, but its also probably the best place for any thoughts/opinions of your own...and to avoid
    duplicating the thread traffic here.

    As earlier, linking people to the thread, its mainly for informational purposes, a means to have people inform themselves, and is also
    a good example of arming yourself instead of having others disseminate an opinion, as much as we rely on and respect peoples opinions
    on here in a wide variety of areas, the great bulk of us are not research scientists. Safety is not something where one should have an
    an insular viewpoint often presented in some forums as our only reference.

    And so onto the link:

    https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...uffers.791711/

    My only personal comment on this so far is that i wish people to be as safe as they can, and to also have the freedom to make their own
    choices when it comes to risk.

    Some other points made by other people before i posted this are that the compounds noted in the video/thread are naturally occurring in normal life
    and broken down quite quickly in most circumstances.

    But, and ill quote directly from a PM i received earlier today: "limiting your exposure to any toxic substance is a good thing as much as practicable", and
    i quote it because it says it better than i could have.
    I haven't clicked on the link but am a member over there, actually a supporting member which I wish our Aussie forums would embrace - its a small amount contributed to help with running costs and a greater sense of community.
    Anyway back on topic - I wish this could have waited a while before posting here - We are in the middle of a big fight for our vaping rights with the current inquiry and any anti vaping activists ( think Chappers) will just jump on this stuff
    Tootle Puffing Provari Fan Gal & Newbie Squonker


  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllyP View Post
    I haven't clicked on the link but am a member over there, actually a supporting member which I wish our Aussie forums would embrace - its a small amount contributed to help with running costs and a greater sense of community.
    Anyway back on topic - I wish this could have waited a while before posting here - We are in the middle of a big fight for our vaping rights with the current inquiry and any anti vaping activists ( think Chappers) will just jump on this stuff
    Agree on supporting places that support vaping as a whole.

    As for waiting on posting it, where do you draw the line on people being informed or "hiding" information for convenience.

    We're often up against junk and manufactured factoids from the antis, i for one would rather be seen to be proactive and not hiding anything, its a marked difference from the opponents.

    I will say that no one raised an issue with me posting the link, and certainly that angle was never contemplated by me, or as far as i know anyone else. As the post says, its linked for informational purposes. Its up to the viewer on how they interpret or use that information.

    Im sure the antis know how to scour the interwebs for ammo to use against the vaping community.
    Last edited by stylemessiah; 20-06-17 at 10:26 PM.
    giruvian, gtadmin, CMB and 6 others like this.
    Stylemessiah: Prince of all things small and whispery. Abhorrer of shoutiness. Shunner of all vigorousities.

    Pushing back against the vendor wall, one damn stupid post at a time...

    Not on as many ignore lists as you think....

    Handy shopping links:
    Mods With Issues (Often On Discounted Flash Sale) Last Updated 13/10/17

  4. #4
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    Brisbane
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    Yea, I thought about linking this a while back, too many worms for me though (I thought it may have popped up sooner). I have been trying to vape under 420F using TC where possible. It would be good to hear from some members here, what there thoughts are.
    Last edited by Vapntime; 20-06-17 at 09:35 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapntime View Post
    Yea, I thought about linking this a while back, too many worms for me though (I thought it may have popped up sooner). I have been trying to vape under 420F using TC where possible. It would be good to hear from some members here, what there thoughts are.
    I hadnt been on ECF in any depth in a while, but i think only having found it now means that theres been enough commentary that it means that theres probably not a lot left to be said on the core points...

    Had i found it earlier im not sure i would have wanted to be the one posting it and watching 190...200 pages go by

    The only thread that should reach those numbers here are XX's Bingo threads
    Last edited by stylemessiah; 20-06-17 at 09:40 PM.
    gtadmin, Fatman, Vapntime and 3 others like this.
    Stylemessiah: Prince of all things small and whispery. Abhorrer of shoutiness. Shunner of all vigorousities.

    Pushing back against the vendor wall, one damn stupid post at a time...

    Not on as many ignore lists as you think....

    Handy shopping links:
    Mods With Issues (Often On Discounted Flash Sale) Last Updated 13/10/17

  6. #6
    AVF Regular
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    W.A
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    3,036
    Have enough stress in life im not reading it
    I want to stay in my happy ish place


    Big shout out to AVF and Everyone that helped me on my Journey to quit the the Death Sticks

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by stylemessiah View Post
    Agree on supporting places that support vaping as a whole.

    As for waiting on posting it, where do you draw the line on people being informed or "hiding" information for convenience.

    We're often up against junk and manufactured factoids from the antis, i for one would rather be seen to be proactive and not hiding anything, its as marked difference from the opponents.

    I will say that no one raised an issue with me posting the link, and certainly that angle was never contemplated by me, or as far as i know anyone else. As the post says, its linked for informational purposes. Its up to the viewer on how they interpret or use that information.

    Im sure the antis know how to scour the interwebs for ammo to use against the vaping community.
    I concur
    Ignore the Super-moderator tag in my profile, I have resigned from that position but admin have not updated my profile as yet

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by stylemessiah View Post
    I hadnt been on ECF in any depth in a while, but i think only having found it now means that theres been enough commentary that it means that theres probably not a lot left to be said on the core points...

    Had i found it earlier im not sure i would have wanted to be the one posting it and watching 190...200 pages go by

    The only thread that should reach those numbers here are XX's Bingo threads
    Yea, However I'm still interested on who will take up the information though. I have already changed my vaping habits but I didn't give up smoking (gave up a long time before I vaped) so I don't sit on the 'yea but its still safer than smoking bandwagon'.
    This is what sits on the bottom of my profile on ECF 'We are seeing a revolution in tobacco harm reduction, and we should obtain all possible benefits from it… Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos'

  9. #9
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    So many unknowns still, is this the beginning of the end for mechs?
    Will we be forced to rely on complex finite lifespan electronics that have proved less than entirely reliable?
    This is all too much for me tonight ;(
    Vaping since July 2012.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaneo View Post
    Have enough stress in life im not reading it
    I want to stay in my happy ish place
    Me too, no intention of reading it - I tootle puff at a max of 14watts and just visit the dark side on my Squonker occasionally upping it to a extreme of 18 watts.
    Also Diy juice with no fancy flavors - no Temp control nonsense or any of that La de Da Vaping - if that doesn't cover me - nothing will
    studiovape, DogMan, shaneo and 2 others like this.
    Tootle Puffing Provari Fan Gal & Newbie Squonker


 

 
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