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Thread: Dont worry, big Tobacco has the solution to smoking !

  1. #1
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    Dont worry, big Tobacco has the solution to smoking !

    This left me breathless,
    Will people fall for it? probably.

    Tobacco giant Philip Morris is paying people 50 if they persuade a smoker to quit | The Independent

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by gert View Post
    Well the only outright lie is the bit where they say only 20% of people can give up smoking with vaping. Those are the figures for smokers who have not made a firm commitment to give up smoking. (ie one in five give up using vaping even though they never intended to do so, and that with a 1st or 2nd generation device). The real figure is probably closer to 60 - 70% success rate in people who really do want to quit and do it with proper advice and modern devices.

    The tricky bit is that PM want people to switch to HNB products made by them instead of vaping, since vaping gets them no money or brand loyalty. With HNB they can still use ammonia chemistry to increase the addictiveness of their product and maintain their revenue stream. Lets face it, they've had this technology for years and if they were really serious about health they would not have shelved it nearly two decades ago when it was not initially a success. They did trials in America then, too. Now if they want to sell it in the US they'll have to bend over for the FDA before they can get it back in there.
    gert and Jemor like this.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  3. #3
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    The tobacco boss said 70 per cent of people are able to completely stop smoking using the heat not burn product
    1. Okay, what about the other 30% ?
    2. When are we going to get Vanilla Custard?


    Moving from cigarettes through Heat Not Burn, (HNB), then on to Vaping has it merits
    Last edited by Snidely_Whiplash; 06-07-17 at 06:13 PM.
    Wombats1 likes this.

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snidely_Whiplash View Post
    1. Okay, what about the other 30% ?
    2. When are we going to get Vanilla Custard?


    Moving from cigarettes through Heat Not Burn, (HNB), then on to Vaping has it merits
    I still don't trust BT, but they may have a point for some people. I'll be putting the video from PM up in a few days from PM's presentation in INNCO conference where they do show they are not as strong as vapes, but may have a point. I just don't need to use them. To me, I just don't need to heat the 4000+ chemicals that are in cigarettes just to get my nic fix.

  5. #5
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    Perhaps PMI are using this study for the 20% figure (I know Chappy did in one of his pieces on The Conversation) which found:

    "E-cigarette users were more likely to report abstinence than either those who used NRT bought over-the-counter [odds ratio (OR) = 2.23, 95% confidence interval (CI) = 1.70–2.93, 20.0 versus 10.1%] or no aid (OR = 1.38, 95% CI = 1.08–1.76, 20.0 versus 15.4%).The adjusted odds of non-smoking in users of ecigarettes were 1.63 (95% CI = 1.17–2.27) times higher compared with users of NRT bought over-the-counter and 1.61 (95% CI = 1.19–2.18) times higher compared with those using no aid."

    Study design: "The design was cross-sectional household surveys of representative samples of the population of adults in England conducted monthly between July 2009 and February 2014."

    So, from the dates the majority of users would've been cig-a-like users (especially prior to 2012)
    Last edited by gtadmin; 06-07-17 at 08:35 PM.
    fabricator4 likes this.
    Ignore the Super-moderator tag in my profile, I have resigned from that position but admin have not updated my profile as yet

  6. #6
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    How is using these "giving up smoking"?
    This stunt smacks of desperation by Phillip Morris.
    Jemor likes this.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by gert View Post
    How is using these "giving up smoking"?
    Because without combustion there is no smoke. I still have reservations myself but it's still likely to be far safer than smoking. For years we've been trying to tell people the problem is the combustion. The concerns I do have however are:

    *The vapour is in the form of pre-combustion gases. That is, gases that may be more chemically reactive.
    *Tobacco companies will still use ammonia chemistry to increase addictiveness.
    *No cost benefits over conventional tobacco products which we know is a key factor in the adoption of vaping.
    *It's still a revenue stream for tobacco companies and governments.
    *They probably taste like shyte, once you get your sense of taste back.
    *I wonder if heaters (as opposed to 'vapers' LOL) will still have the "Aha!" moment when they realise how bad burning tobacco smells.

    The fact that it includes WTAs and has been ammonia treated means that I will never use it. I've done without them for over four years and I don't want to revisit that particular nightmare. For some people having trouble transitioning to vaping because of the lack of WTAs, dual use with these would be a better option if the only other one was lighting up.


    This stunt smacks of desperation by Phillip Morris.
    Certainly it is. As far as I can see PM has not managed to come up with a decent vape alternative (someone correct me if I'm wrong and they do have a brand cutting swathes into the vaping market) and they can see their customers all but disappearing in five to ten years in countries where vaping is legal and encouraged. They owe it to their shareholders to find alternative income streams. Personally I don't hate them enough to want to see them burn in hell (maybe toast them a little on the way through) and if it did get smokers off combustibles permanently then that would be a good thing. I'll be interested to see if the conversions really are permanent. If HNB turns out to be a transition phase on the way to vaping or otherwise quitting that would be a great thing too.

    The knee jerk reaction where tobacco companies are concerned is understandably severe, because well... Tobacco Companies. It's far too easy to demonise tobacco (eg snus) but I don't think vapers should fall into that trap. We've spent far too long on the fringes ourselves to condemn something without proof. Tobacco companies are the only ones who can commercialise HNB, and if that's the thing that makes the cultural difference in getting smokers to stop lighting up, then that would be a good thing.

    Everyone who tries a 'heater' is a potential vaper as far as I'm concerned.

    ETA: My first reaction to HNB was exactly the same: OMG, they must be kidding, it's still smoking, tobacco companies are getting desperate etc.
    Then I thought "That's exactly how ANTZ have successfully kept vaping down for so long even though it's far safer than smoking". Safer is safer... Harm reduction may need to take many forms before we have a world where people don't stick burning vegetable matter in their faces every thirty minutes.
    Last edited by fabricator4; 07-07-17 at 12:42 AM.
    gert and Jemor like this.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  8. #8
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    There seems to be some pro's and con's to HNB's and a few of these are shown in my next 3 additions in my 'We're Not Alone' thread with graphs over the next couple of days and could help a lot of questions to these products. Of course we are all free to make our own minds up. Mine is made up for the time being still. it's still 'Once bitten twice shy'!
    fabricator4 likes this.

 

 

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