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Thread: Thoughts on how Batteries should be Regulated

  1. #1
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    Thoughts on how Batteries should be Regulated

    Let's see if we can hash out some of the points, on how to regulate batteries.

    Point One: Battery Specifications

    A Industry standard system of testing batteries,
    that gives us;

    1. Maximum continuous amp rating.
    2. Recommended continuous amp range, (sweet spot).
    3. mAh.
    4. Nominal voltage to two decimal places, (eg 3.67).


    Any manufacturer or rewraper,
    who's batteries don't test to with in 20% of point 1,
    should be banned.
    ie if you label a

    • 20 amp battery, at any thing above 25 amps,
    • 15 amp battery, at any thing above 18 amps,
    • 10 amp battery, at any thing above 12 amps,

    you are history.


    Point Two: Labels
    I would like to see;
    1. Maximum continuous amp rating.
    2. Recommended continuous amp range, (sweet spot).
    3. mAh.
    4. Nominal voltage to two decimal places, (eg 3.67).
    5. A batch number.
    eg
    manufacturer code - plant code - batch
    xxx - xxx - xxxxxx
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  2. #2
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    I can make it simpler.

    1. Any user replaceable battery MUST be safe chemistry IMR or INR, Hybrid etc.

    All the problems of fires and explosions will go away, regardless of user error which you can't legislate against.

    2. Unsafe chemistries (Lipo) can only be used for internal batteries (not intended to be user replaceable) and must have full protection circuits installed to protect the battery. Batteries and circuits must be reliable enough and the battery should have enough physical protection to ensure a high degree of safety.

    All the problems of damaged/faulty batteries and incorrect charging etc go away.

    We really don't need more than that for safety regulation. The labeling is important, but the chemistry used for replaceable batteries is the thing that will protect people. The problem with safe chemistry is it's harder to enforce. The problem with labeling though, is it won't protect the idiots from themselves - a dead short on an unsafe chemistry battery may still be a fire/explosion no matter how good or accurate the labeling is.

    I predict that no matter what they do, they still will not be able to eliminate the .0001% of damn fools requiring dental work because they don't have a firm grasp of just how much energy is stored in a lithium battery and how quickly it can go wrong.

    The second one may weed out the cheap pen style stuff that blows up while charging (cheap poor quality batteries and circuits), but I wouldn't count on it.
    Last edited by fabricator4; 02-08-17 at 09:17 AM.
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    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

  3. #3
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    Bit harsh Fab, someone needs to speak on behalf of the idiots that want more GreatT power density.
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  4. #4
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    This sounds like good battery news, hope it eventuates.

    https://techxplore.com/news/2017-08-...lutionise.html
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gert View Post
    This sounds like good battery news, hope it eventuates.

    https://techxplore.com/news/2017-08-...lutionise.html
    Great work SW, Gert, Fab & MrG. I am about to procure 3 x 18650s and I'm shocked at the crap out there! The info given by you all is a potential face saver. I hope what you found gets a tick and becomes available quick Gert.
    Now with the eloquence and disposition of Porky Pig

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  6. #6
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    Is this exclusively for batteries used for vaping, or all batteries? There should be a national standard for all batteries ... think of how many phones have blown up because sub-standard batteries were installed.
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  7. #7
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    Just for people looking for info. This is all info on AVF but if it's the first time you've read it. Good!
    https://usedvape.com/blog/vaping-bat...CAAEgLt0_D_BwE
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snidely_Whiplash View Post
    Let's see if we can hash out some of the points, on how to regulate batteries.
    With a DNA?
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  9. #9
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    Just a question why can these battery's not be protected like a say 18650 torch battery. I see the general limit on these torch battery are 4/8 amps. Why can they not protect em up to the batterys rating say 20 amps for a hg2. Pls enlighten me.

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny76 View Post
    Just a question why can these battery's not be protected like a say 18650 torch battery. I see the general limit on these torch battery are 4/8 amps. Why can they not protect em up to the batterys rating say 20 amps for a hg2. Pls enlighten me.

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
    Because it's not easy to have a circuit that can carry 20 amps, and still give good protection. The best you can do is put a fuse in there, then if the fuse gets too hot it will break and the battery will never work again. It also doesn't protect you from over charging or over discharge because for that you need more circuitry that detects voltages and acts as a breaker, but it has to be tiny to fit on the end of the battery and that means it won't be able to handle the twenty amps... da capo...

    I've also opened up a couple of "protected" batteries and discovered that there was actually no circuit board in there under the cap. It's way too much trouble and way too expensive so the Chinese manufacturers just leave it out. They are also a notoriously fickle little device to have in your battery, prone to not working for reasons unrelated to battery safety. Oh, and not to mention that even with the circuit working and in place there is still no protection against the battery going critical due to past physical abuse, high ambient temperatures, being punctured, or just plain faulty manufacture, so you'd still have some cases of fire and destruction.

    I don't trust those torch batteries one little bit. I'd rather have my Samsung 25Rs. At least if they go off they are not going to take my hand off.
    Last edited by fabricator4; 16-08-17 at 03:31 PM.
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    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

 

 
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