Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 95
Like Tree346Likes

Thread: NNA Annoucements

  1. #31
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Daylesford, Victoria
    Posts
    1,657
    Ratm, to be fair Annette has only been on the board since May/June and was walking gently given the circumstances.

    "I would be very careful about how you determine who the majority - especially online actually are- Many dont speak up openly on the forum- many are not inclined to join the other forum and others still do not have facebook or twitter - Likes on post also say not much - but can often make cliques more apparent - this 'majority approach can divide your community further - perhaps further internal discussion on this issue is needed ?"

    I agree with this and its important that they reach as many as possible and not be limited to one forum - everyone needs to have a voice and that means the NNA needs to engage with multiple forums, twitsville and farcebook - I really hope they do as its the best way of reaching some kind of consensus - there is no way of reaching or asking the opinion of peeps not connected to the net and as such we can just hope their voices are heard via others.
    Tootle Puffing Provari Fan Gal & Newbie Squonker


  2. #32
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    5,156
    perhaps this is something that can be formalised at some point so that guidelines can be created for your advocates and board members- some NNAau supporters and members have over time have behaved atrociously towards others in the vaping community and towards pollies and others - perhaps also way to complain and a way to make sure that those complaints are addressed- cyber bulling and cyber stalking should also be part of these guidelines - I know that I have previously had problems with both cyber bullying and cyber stalking in relation to the NNA Au board & members
    this isn't being mean on my count

    but NNA has no place setting guidelines for supporters, members, nor donators... only the board and associates

    Quote Originally Posted by btobw View Post
    1 vote for DogMan because squonkers, dogs, chooks and brevity

  3. #33
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,075
    Not my argument now at all but as I've explained endless times, the NNA AU under my watch, did not attempt to restrict DIY at any strength. It attempted to have 36mg/ml available in your local vape shop or tobacconist for sale (or anywhere for that matter) for those (unlike us) that are not or will never be DIYers. In other words to help existing smokers

    This would never have affected imports as they are different laws. Federally, it is not illegal to import nicotine because it's not a prohibited import at any strength.

    It is the states, by way of the SUSMP (TGA) that restrict use/possession/acquiring/sales in the STATES. That is why, all nicotine seized by customs is released. It is only a problem if the state Health Departments seize it at point of arrival in the STATE.

    Also, there was never any medicalisation proposal at all. The application was to TAKE NICOTINE UP TO 3.6% out of MEDICALISATION (the SUSMP) which is controlled by the TGA. ie. OUT OF, not into. and therefore AS A CONSUMER PRODUCT.

    The NNA AU can speak for themselves now but I just wanted to make the above points clear.
    DogMan likes this.

  4. #34
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,075
    And one more thing.

    I congratulate the new board on asking people for their views. I'd just put it to you.....what are you going to do when you take a position and those that didn't vote for it ark up?

    When they say...
    Well how many voted for each option?
    You didn't advertise it widely enough
    I've got heaps of mates that would have voted my way
    You didn't tell us when the voting finished.
    I didn't even know about it so how can you say you represent all vapers opinons?

    Good luck with that.

  5. #35
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    victoria
    Posts
    4,855
    Annette has been pretty usless if we are honest - (although she is probably a nice person

    she has not attempted to formally engage with the vaping community outside of her own clique or writing a few letters to people - She has a community background from what I recall but shows no understanding of what that entails in terms of either advocacy or fragmented communities -

    If this is the case the fact that it appears that fab with a science and not social science background is pushed to develop a survey for the community is an issue where she is concerned - further to that using either fear or dislike of a community that you represent is not an excuse not to engage with them to at least get to know who they are and what they want and why they want it - maybe this will change with her - I would like to hope so

    I dont know what her role is exactly - but clear roles based on strengths is something to aim for - if not now then soon while the happy iron is hot - fab and margy are definite strengths and a good start - but you also need a qualified experienced advocacy/ community development worker (or two or three) to help make them stronger and to help strengthen the community overall



    Ally its not just about extending your reach to different media platforms - its about understanding who makes up your community, what are thier overall goals and aspirations? Why do some people oppose an idea that you think is terrific?

    You can have 100 members and another 100 supporters - but another 2 or 300 people wont state openly what they feel about an issue one way or another - If thats the case - how do you know you are on the right track?

    Ally just because a group of people are vocal - does not mean they are advocating for anyone but themselves- It creates the problem of finding out who the majority are and how to compromise and how much to compromise to make sure you are on track for your overall community

    In this case the survey idea is a good one - if not a bit ill conceived because you will only get back the answers that you want (qualitative questions help alot) - but its a start I suppose and fab and Margy are onto something

    Personally am not excited - but am glad that fab and margy are trying - and they have made leaps in the right direction - I hope they both soon find the help that they need to succeed





    Quote Originally Posted by AllyP View Post
    Ratm, to be fair Annette has only been on the board since May/June and was walking gently given the circumstances.

    "I would be very careful about how you determine who the majority - especially online actually are- Many dont speak up openly on the forum- many are not inclined to join the other forum and others still do not have facebook or twitter - Likes on post also say not much - but can often make cliques more apparent - this 'majority approach can divide your community further - perhaps further internal discussion on this issue is needed ?"

    I agree with this and its important that they reach as many as possible and not be limited to one forum - everyone needs to have a voice and that means the NNA needs to engage with multiple forums, twitsville and farcebook - I really hope they do as its the best way of reaching some kind of consensus - there is no way of reaching or asking the opinion of peeps not connected to the net and as such we can just hope their voices are heard via others.
    Last edited by rebelagainstthemachine; 10-11-17 at 10:22 PM.
    Support the closed autocratic NNA AU lobby group-
    Give money, sign and fill what we say then STFU- its called unity!

    You actually thought that your action & thoughts matter?Its "experts" only buddy
    Pfft don't like it?... go away and start your own
    All Hail the NNA AU vape overlords!
    Delete & block the negative! It never happened- its in the past MKAY?
    (or face members & supporters wrath & tears...)
    Infiltrate, Dominate & assimilate all unbelievers..Welcome to the new NNA AU echo chamber

  6. #36
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    victoria
    Posts
    4,855
    Im sorry Donna when were the open elections that happened under your leadership? or the communication with the whole vaping community? At least they are now trying and who knows may eventually lead to elections that all can participate in... which is something you never did

    Both unlike you have shown they have balls - and a care for the whole community - not just their mates or their own needs and beliefs

    At least the new crew are trying rather than sitting on a power trip feeling important - Why are you even bothering to post here? You have continually shat on AVF for the past couple of years

    Starting to look like a case of what you cant have you will try to destroy .... Poor Donna




    Quote Originally Posted by Davi View Post
    And one more thing.

    I congratulate the new board on asking people for their views. I'd just put it to you.....what are you going to do when you take a position and those that didn't vote for it ark up?

    When they say...
    Well how many voted for each option?
    You didn't advertise it widely enough
    I've got heaps of mates that would have voted my way
    You didn't tell us when the voting finished.
    I didn't even know about it so how can you say you represent all vapers opinons?

    Good luck with that.
    Last edited by rebelagainstthemachine; 10-11-17 at 10:28 PM.
    Support the closed autocratic NNA AU lobby group-
    Give money, sign and fill what we say then STFU- its called unity!

    You actually thought that your action & thoughts matter?Its "experts" only buddy
    Pfft don't like it?... go away and start your own
    All Hail the NNA AU vape overlords!
    Delete & block the negative! It never happened- its in the past MKAY?
    (or face members & supporters wrath & tears...)
    Infiltrate, Dominate & assimilate all unbelievers..Welcome to the new NNA AU echo chamber

  7. #37
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Mackay
    Posts
    7,612
    Quote Originally Posted by rebelagainstthemachine View Post
    I also have concerns about loaded questions in any survey - especially if these kinds of issues are known about ahead of time - no point screaming about ANTZ and their loaded crap if you can justify doing it yourself - Using loaded research be it for your own organisation or to advocate automatically nullifies anything that you think you might have learned - It also give others another weapon against what you are trying to achieve - and makes people with knowledge of these things (in and out of the community) - simply not take you seriously


    Well have a look at the questions and tell me, especially the first two, how loaded they are. The questions explain the expected stance and meaning, but that was as much a limitation of the survey as anything. The only text that could be put there had to be in the question.

    It's not research, it's finding out what the community wants. If you don't agree with either of the first two, why not?

    The third question was the one I had to change as it was quite harsh. Basically if people respond that they want us to do nothing and let any legislation roll right over the top, what are we doing here? If we allow stigmatisation of vapers it will just make it harder to get what we need. The same techniques that are used to marginalise smokers are being used on vapers too. I don't see how this would be a good thing. It's important information for us to know though

    The fourth question is harsh, and remains so. If someone clicks on that, they have lost the will to vape or they are ANTZ trying to skew the figures. Also important information, but I hadn't got as far as working how to analyse that though.


    Anyways thats my two bob - although please it would be nice to know if you as a group will push for 100mg or 36mg as this is an important point that really needs to be clarified
    I think I made it clear - DIY strengths of 100mg/ml are what is required, and that's what we would like. If we walk in and asked the TGA for 100mg/ml right now, we'd get laughed out the place. Their collective heads (TGA, govt, doctors, public health, everyone) is not in the right place yet. The time will come.

    We have what amounts to prohibition right now. That law is already in place, and as you know that puts us in a very difficult position.

    There is more on the image of vaping as medical which the TGA promotes among other things - but I think I will leave that for another time
    Honestly, I don't think the TGA has any intention of allowing any vaping product through. Maybe if BP did it and greased the wheels, but if they were going to do that I think they would have done it by now. They just aren't interested and the TGA knows that. They got one submission from BT and guess what? Yep, it was laughed out of the place, not even given consideration. They are not interested in the science, or saving lives apparently.

    Any verbiage you hear from the TGA about medicalisation can be taken with a large dose of salt. It's just fluff to make it look like they are being proactive. "look what we've done..." just a way to divert attention when they get asked the hard questions.

    Thanks again for your answer - it is much appreciated and I look forward to seeing what you say about the levels that you are advocating for and what exactly you wish the community would support in terms of levels
    I don't think I'd want to guess at what the community would support at this point. It's a very good question to be asking though.
    Last edited by fabricator4; 10-11-17 at 10:36 PM.
    margyb, Rose and Wombats1 like this.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.


  8. #38
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Darlinghurst, Sydney
    Posts
    4,741
    Quote Originally Posted by Davi View Post
    They had five months to do it and despite several threats that they would be closed down, they did nothing. Eventually I lost my patience when they wouldn't even acknowledge an express post signed approval to change things. I could have closed it on the 26th June if I wanted to..

    Don't worry though, the name isn't locked up by me or anything, they can start it all again as it was. I just wanted my name and personal details removed from stuff like Hoofprint above posted. On the other site the NNA AU had, my name, home address and phone number was published and I didn't like that even more.

    Five months to get things sorted is way too long in my opinion and it had to end and it has. All theirs now..
    Im only going to say this once Donna, and ive been reserved with my comments before now, and well others have been nothing but class and diplomatic after your last driveby, and also not sinking to your level to tell what youve left them to deal with

    But i'll say it, you've done everything you could to make it near impossible for anyone to make use of materials and domains etc, you may think youre fooling everyone with your assertions that you have done the opposite and the new gang have made a mess of things...had x months to fix this/that, but i hate to tell you you're not.

    So before you persist in any more of your scorched earth policy drive bys and further salting of the earth on top of it on the way out, please take this opportunity to kindly **** off and leave the community and the new gang to sort out their own relationship free of your poisonous presence.

    Just go away, no ones buying what youre selling
    Stylemessiah: Prince of all things small and whispery. Abhorrer of shoutiness. Shunner of all vigorousities.

    Not on as many ignore lists as you think....

    Handy shopping links:
    Mods With Issues (Often On Discounted Flash Sale) Last Updated 13/10/17

  9. #39
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,075
    I knew you'd bite.

    So you'll support the new board now?
    You'll support whatever the results of their polling no matter how small/large?
    Whether you agree with the result or not?

    If you do, brilliant, I think that means the way I started the NNA AU was wrong and your method is right.

    So FFS why don't you stop picking on the NNA now I'm gone.

    Let them do their jobs if that is your interest. They've made it clear it is a new beginning.

    If it's not your way of doing things, you'll never be happy so what's the point in bitching about any advocacy organisation. Start your own and then you know it will be done your way.

  10. #40
    AVF Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Daylesford, Victoria
    Posts
    1,657
    Quote Originally Posted by rebelagainstthemachine View Post
    Annette has been pretty usless if we are honest - (although she is probably a nice person

    she has not attempted to formally engage with the vaping community outside of her own clique or writing a few letters to people - She has a community background from what I recall but shows no understanding of what that entails in terms of either advocacy or fragmented communities -

    If this is the case the fact that it appears that fab with a science and not social science background is pushed to develop a survey for the community is an issue where she is concerned - further to that using either fear or dislike of a community that you represent is not an excuse not to engage with them to at least get to know who they are and what they want and why they want it - maybe this will change with her - I would like to hope so

    I dont know what her role is exactly - but clear roles based on strengths is something to aim for - if not now then soon while the happy iron is hot - fab and margy are definite strengths and a good start - but you also need a qualified experienced advocacy/ community development worker to help make them stronger and to help strengthen the community overall



    Ally its not just about extending your reach to different media platforms - its about understanding who makes up your community, what are thier overall goals and aspirations? Why do some people oppose an idea that you think is terrific?

    You can have 100 members and another 100 supporters - but another 2 or 300 people wont state openly what they feel about an issue one way or another - If thats the case - how do you know you are on the right track?

    Ally just because a group of people are vocal - does not mean they are advocating for anyone but themselves- It creates the problem of finding out who the majority are and how to compromise and how much to compromise to make sure you are on track for your overall community

    In this case the survey idea is a good one - if not a bit ill conceived because you will only get back the answers that you want (qualitative questions help alot) - but its a start I suppose and fab and Margy are onto something

    Personally am not excited - but am glad that fab and margy are trying - and they have made leaps in the right direction - I hope they both soon find the help that they need to succeed
    Good points Ratm but they have to start somewhere and the truth is no advocacy group will ever cover all Vapers - its a impossible task but they can try and connect with as many as possible and hopefully future surveys will be less "loaded"
    Respectfully disagree regarding Annette - There is much more to her than is visible on forums and she has my respect. I think she is the link missing in the past with the NNA - she knows how to connect and engage others - give her time and she will shine.
    Agree Margy & Fab are wonderful additions to the board - its early days but we are heading in the silly season so I am not expecting much from them before the new year - hoping some breathing space will be given to them while they regroup and consider how they might move on and create change in communications and advocacy in general.
    DogMan and stylemessiah like this.
    Tootle Puffing Provari Fan Gal & Newbie Squonker


 

 
Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.4
Copyright © 2017 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
All times are GMT +11. The time now is 11:05 AM.