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Thread: Nicotine fluid - legal or illegal

  1. #1
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    Question Nicotine fluid - legal or illegal

    Vapers from Queensland and Victoria have been informed by their respective Depts of Health that possession of nicotine preparations is illegal as it is a schedule 7 poison when used for the purposes of vaping. There are conflicting opinions and accounts depending on who you ask, when you ask and how much you grill the person you are speaking to.

    I just spoke to customs, Victorian Department of health and read all the acts and regulations (I have nothing to do today clearly).

    So as we are all aware, there are two levels of laws – 1) in relation to importation (commonwealth) 2) in relation to possession & use (state level, but informed from the Poison Standard 2010 from the C'wealth Therapeutic Goods Administration). http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2010L02386/Download

    From what I have read and heard:

    Australian Customs WILL ALLOW importation of liquid nicotine solutions UNLESS the container or packaging indicates that it is for THERAPEUTIC USE or if it makes THERAPEUTIC CLAIMS (e.g. "nicotine replacement therapy", "quitting aid" etc). It is then considered a schedule 4 (prescription only medicine) until proven otherwise (ie seized unless it has a prescription).

    A drugs & poisons officer from the Victorian Dept of Health informed me, after double checking the regs and with his superiors, that possession of nicotine for human use in ecigarettes is tabled under Schedule 7 – meaning it is a dangerous poison and possession, sale & manufacture is illegal without a licence/permit. He claimed it is not ambiguous – that such possession is illegal regardless of concentration etc.

    This concerned me. I read into it further.

    I found he failed to mention that in addition to Sched 4, 6 (3% or less, for animal use only) and 7, nicotine is also tabled in Schedule 2 -
    "NICOTINE for use as an aid in withdrawal from tobacco smoking in preparations for inhalation" (pg 41 of the poisons standard.)

    Under schedule 2 (pharmacy medicine "the safe use of which MAY require advice from a pharmacist"), possession of nicotine as an aid in withdrawal from tobacco smoking is legal.

    If it was in Schedule 3 (pharmacist ONLY medicine), then this would be a different matter, but its not. God know why it isnt but I wont complain.

    So my conclusion here is if there are no therapeutic claims on the packaging, and you are using it to aid in withdrawal from tobacco, it is legal.

    Thoughts? Any lawyers in our midst?
    Last edited by DukeW; 30-03-11 at 05:20 PM.
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  2. #2
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    I clearly had nothing to do the other day and scanned some stuff as well.... I didn tmanage to put together such a nice eloquent post as yours tho.

    http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2010L02386

    This is where at a casual glance schedule 7 helps clarify things a bit.... Assuming what you said above of it being classified as a schedule 7 stands true, all schedule 7's are prohibited from being retailed without a licence and only some are illegal to posess... Nicotine is not one of these in my opinion, still depends on your interpertation of "domestic use" but it may be illegal to vape in your garden....

    Schedule 7 poisons

    41. (1) A person must not possess or use a Schedule 7 poison for domestic or domestic garden purposes.

    (2) A person must not sell or supply:
    (a) a Schedule 7 poison for domestic or domestic garden purposes; or
    (b) a Schedule 7 poison being a liquid preparation containing paraquat unless it is coloured blue or green and contains sufficient stenching agent to produce an offensive smell; or
    (c) a Schedule 7 poison for which an authorisation to possess or use is required by sub-paragraph (3) unless the purchaser produces his or her authorisation.

    (3) A person must not possess or use any of the following Schedule 7 poisons unless he or she is authorised to do so by the appropriate authority:

    Arsenic
    Cyanides
    Fluoroacetic acid
    Fluoroacetamide
    Hydrocyanic acid
    Strychnine
    Thallium.

    (4) The appropriate authority may exempt a person or a class of persons from the requirement to hold an authorisation under sub-paragraph (3) and may vary or revoke the exemption by notice in writing.

    Not a Lawyer
    Last edited by Sik; 30-03-11 at 05:39 PM. Reason: legistlative line breaks needed shrinking
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  3. #3
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    Legal?

    DILLIGAF!

    My health > Their laws!

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    I've had a package from FSUSA opened by customs. All the bottles say nicotine and the concentration.
    The slip that they put in there said it had been inspected and nothing removed.
    Sounds legal enough to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lothar Vimes View Post
    I've had a package from FSUSA opened by customs. All the bottles say nicotine and the concentration.
    The slip that they put in there said it had been inspected and nothing removed.
    Sounds legal enough to me.
    Was posted on another forum OP had contents confiscated..Happened recently.
    Maybe Customs have ben told to crack down by the powers that be or maybe a new over zealous trainee agent.

    First confiscation I am aware of so haven't hit the panic button yet.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lothar Vimes View Post
    Sounds legal enough to me.
    Well as long as it sounds legal...
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  7. #7
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    I just don't get it.
    Australia unveils plans for tough anti-smoking laws. OK cool, make smoking as unattractive as possible to discourage new smokers. Lose all that tax on smokes, but I'm sure the budget is in good hands

    Still don't allow the sale of snuff, snus, e-liquid with nicotine (which may or may not be legal at all depending on the phase of the moon) or any of the other "well, at least it's not a burning tobacco cigarette" products

    The pessimist in me does not see any good coming out of this for us, especially when we have several options already available. Pay big bucks to BT (and tax) and die, or pay big bucks to BP, probably hiked to cover however many millions it costs to get TGA to put the "probably won't kill you" stamp on some form.

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    ..yes I saw little fat angry Nicola on Telly last night ranting about how she "wasnt going to be dictated to by Big Tobacco".
    Wonder what has inspired the latest anti nicotine purge that seems to be happening all over the place. Probably the UN.
    The Nanny state is again in full roar it seems. Canada is having problems-The UK has been expecting a ban to come into place anytime now and has been collecting petitions for ages. US is presently nic friendly, dont know about other Countries
    I guess the bureaucrats have to justify their existence somehow-usually done by making even more laws to extinguish peoples freedoms
    to organise their own lives.
    Last edited by gert; 08-04-11 at 11:04 AM.

  9. #9
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    "Depts of Health" - says it all really.

    They are not law makers; they are policy makers.

    Just because their policy classifies something as a poison does not automatically make it illegal.

    "posession nicotine preparations is illegal " yes, that is true.. but they are talking about the manufacture of nicotine without a licence to do so, I believe. It IS illegal to grow your own tobacco, it IS illegal to manufacture nicotine without a licence and it IS (currently) illegal to sell nicotine in Australia.

    Nicotine is not listed, specifically, as a prohibited item and the only thing close to nicotine is tobacco; and this is only subject to "duty" when you are importing it. It is not illegal to import it. Nor is it illegal to import poisons. Nor is it illegal to import pharmaceutical drugs, provided you have a reason that you can prove for importing it (existing medical condition etc).

    Policy != Law.

    Now.. if they wanna get down off their high-horses and separate nicotine from tobacco in tobacco law, then they may have a leg to stand on but they will also need to clasify it as a narcotic.. and a banned substance at that, as you can still import up to 3 months supply of narcotics, provided they are not banned. Restricted is not the same as banned.

    The problem with these health agencies is that they paraphrase the law and try to dictate the law based on their own policies.
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  10. #10
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    "The problem with these health agencies is that they paraphrase the law and try to dictate the law based on their own policies. "

    Hello Light. Thats probably the key to it. How about the person on Whirlpool that had a whole lot of his filled cartos confiscated and they wont release them or return them to China. Who has deep enough pockets to challenge them in Court? That how they get away with it.

 

 
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