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Thread: Australia E-cig Industry Protection could learn from UK and US Methods

  1. #1
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    Australia E-cig Industry Protection could learn from UK and US Methods

    A member of the e-cig Reddit forum emailed The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives (CASAA), which is a US version of ATACA I believe.

    He emailed CASAA ;


    "Good Afternoon, I was having a discussion with other advocates of E-Cigs, and Vaping in general, and there is one thing we are stuck on. How can the FDA and Government in general consider our habit/hobby a tobacco product. There is no Tobacco in it? Just wanted the CASAAs take on the matter, since you guys are more directly involved with the Regulation attempts so far in the US today."


    The response from CASAA was a well concise history of the banning and then the unbanning of electronic cigarettes in the US, and the differences between how the US and the UK e-cig industries attacked the problem.

    An interesting read, Click here to read CASAA's response; CASAA Email : electronic_cigarette


    The poster responded to the email ;

    "does this mean that Taxes that apply to Tobacco products (e.g cigarettes, smokeless tobacco) will be applicable to consumers or will the vendors themselves be responsible for these taxes. As I understand it, they buy the Nicotine (the derivative in question) in wholesale from laboratories. Either way I foresee the consumers themselves being forced to pay these taxes. Do retailers, pharmaceutical companies, or the manufactures themselves pay taxes on NRT products? I understand that Vaporizers are not considered NRT products, but I can't help but be frustrated with the thought of paying taxes on this. Health aside, cost is a large reason we as a consumer base choose to partake in this habit/hobby. Second, what about E-Juices that do not contain Nicotine, how can they be rationalized to be considered a tobacco product. These "juices" merely are a placebo for some, and while some just enjoy it. Thanks"

    So this got me thinking about how the Australian Government may be looking for ways to ban electronic cigarettes in order to protect the interests of their high corporate donors, namely the Tobacco and Pharmaceutical Corporations.

    The nicotine that we purchase, while not tobacco, is nonetheless extracted from tobacco. Therefore, purchasing a 500mL bottle of nicotine, even as low as 1.8% density, could lead to excessively high tobacco excise, since a 500mL bottle can weigh up to half a kilogram, or even more. I'm sure both the Tobacco companies and Pharmaceutical companies, as well as those like Becky Freeman and Simon Chapman (who are against any form of nicotine intake including NRT) would be licking their lips over this.

    However, in a 500mL bottle of 1.8% nicotine, the majority of the contents is Propylene Glycol or Vegetable Glycerin, and only 900mg (18mg x 500) of nicotine. If worse came to worst, and the Australian Government did begin placing Tobacco Excise on nicotine imports, you could either

    1. Buy 500mL of PG or VG and 900mg of Pure (100%) Nicotine (which is dangerous - I'd prefer not to handle liquids over 10% nicotine)

    or

    2. Buy 500mL 1.8% nicotine, and argue to Customs that only 900mg of your import is subject to tobacco excise.

    For higher concentrations of nicotine, it would very similar argument which degrees of multiplication. Remember that two packs of cigarettes (which is duty free) contain about 50g (50,000mg) of tobacco product that is not subject to tobacco excise.
    Last edited by mavinry4; 18-09-12 at 09:20 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Hopefully Chinese vendors will say it's synthetically created nicotine, although given the current health studies it should only take another 25 years and we will all be praising nicotine as a wonder drug.

  3. #3
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    High concentration nicotine is highly regulated, as you know it's a seriously dangerous poison and has a amazing ability to get through the skin into the blood stream.

    I understand most people know how to handle it but it would only take one idiot to become sick or kill themselves for the whole thing to come crashing down.
    If that did happen the Govt would blanket bad the lot as knee jerk reactions are something this Govt is good at.

    IMHO keeping the concentrations as they are is probably a good idea.
    I personally would be concerned about handling and storing even a 50/50 solution.

    As far the CASSA letter is concerned I can't help but wonder in what capacity the FDA was going in so hard with the appeals? Was it a smoke screen (lol) for tobacco and drug companies just trying to protect their interests? Just a thought
    Last edited by a1120028; 18-09-12 at 11:12 PM.

  4. #4
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    just buy up people - we all have freezers. not hard to stock up on 48mg unflavoured mixed pg/vg in one litre lots and have enough to last the armageddon.
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    Or we all move in with Tugger and his Missus at the first sign of trouble
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