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Thread: Tanya Plibersek in Q&A - 9:35pm Monday, September 24 2012

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundasleep View Post
    IMHO there is no point asking a question - we'll just get the usual BS rhetoric.

    The ONLY way to ask the question is in person, when you have a chance to actually discuss it. That way when they hit with the usual BS answers, you can counter with the actual science. But seriously...how would be even BEGIN to make that happen?
    Probably in court. If a nicotine ban was to be strictly enforced, I'm sure a lot of people would be affected by it, not to mention the vendors. There just has to be a way to make governments accountable for bad laws. I fear that to challenge that would be too costly.

    How does the TGA introduce bans on substances? For example, when they changed the 2012 Poisons standards to disclude nicotine from schedule 2, was anyone even notified? Was ATACA, were the vendors? Does the givernment even take into consideration that their new rules will affect people, and attempt to contact those people? If not, what a miserably inefficient system of governance we have in Australia.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mavinry4 View Post
    How does the TGA introduce bans on substances?
    First they annouce what they plan to change and ask for formal comments from stake-holders and the public.

    They then meet to discuss the issue again, ignore what the public has said, and go ahead anyway.

    Look into synthetic cannabis if you want a great example of how they "listen to the public."
    extre248 and mavinry4 like this.

  3. #13
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    What would be the procedure to take the government to court? I'm guessing that would cost in the millions I imagine, but if some kind of class action law suit were to happen, how would it all play out?


    PS: I know people here don't like me bring this topic up and being all dooms-dayish, but it's just discussion, and I'm curious to know how law makers are held accountable for unjustified laws. It'd be like not wanting to talk about how to take the government to court under the threat of them proposing that Evolution be thrown out of the education curriculum.

  4. #14
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    where else do aussie vapers get to discuss vaping politics than here.

    stuff the naysayers. ift hey don't like your threads noone's making them resd them.

    one day we might need to stick together and if we are ever going to form a unified politically savvy group with numbers, I daresay this is the best place currently in oz to find them. correct me if I'm wrong ..
    mavinry4 and targaboy like this.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatman View Post
    Like most pollies , if there isnt a prepared answer to a non alerted question , it will get passed over ...they only ever really want to answer Qns they have they have already rehearsed the answers to, and I am betting e-cigs wont be one of them apart from the Std Govt line we all know . (IMO)

    E.G. " Miss Plibersek , what is your stance in regard to the use of electronic cigarettes ( insert random Qn here"

    Answer " As far as our government is concerned there has been no evidence presented as to the safety of such devices , and as such they should not be used ... my minions will look into it blah blah blah "

    Followed by an aide writing down .... Tanya said e-cigs are bad ... form opinion and research to back this up in case the media asks anything
    and then when some staffer looks into it and finds we are importing nic (legally) who knows what the ferk will happen
    note to whatever party is in power at any given time in the future - "leave us the hell alone"
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  6. #16
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    At the moment it's not illegal to import. We are still covered under the Personal Import Scheme. Which makes me wonder, wouldn't it be freakin expensive to enforce a nicotine import ban if it did come into play? Would it really be that worth it?

    All I can think of is ;

    If the sales of nicotine cause a drop in the Pharmaceutical and Tobacco sales leading to a decrease in Government donations from the Pharmaceutical and Tobacco companies, that is higher than the cost of enforcing a nicotine import ban, then of course they'll enforce it.

    It's all about making sure the Government maintains the income.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mavinry4 View Post
    What would be the procedure to take the government to court? I'm guessing that would cost in the millions I imagine, but if some kind of class action law suit were to happen, how would it all play out?


    PS: I know people here don't like me bring this topic up and being all dooms-dayish, but it's just discussion, and I'm curious to know how law makers are held accountable for unjustified laws. It'd be like not wanting to talk about how to take the government to court under the threat of them proposing that Evolution be thrown out of the education curriculum.
    Federal court would have to find that in legislating the Commonwealth erred in law, or that it contravened some other law. Unfortunately under the consitution, it's not that difficult for them to legislate for this type of scenario, e.g., they could make laws under the trade and commerce power, but again it would have to be in-line with other laws already in existence, for example a law against importation of nicotine couldn't be inconsistent with say a law under the trade practices act. But that's a whole different ball-game.

    End of the day, courts in Australia are pretty good at holding the Commonwealth accountable for laws they make, but only if it can be proved on balance the provision in question is unlawful.
    mavinry4 likes this.

 

 
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