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Thread: Drug "trials"

  1. #1
    Sik
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    Drug "trials"

    The drugs don't work: a modern medical scandal The doctors prescribing the drugs don't know they don't do what they're meant to. Nor do their patients. The manufacturers know full well, but they're not telling.

    The drugs don't work: a modern medical scandal | Ben Goldacre | Business | The Guardian


    I'm sure a few of you were / are already skeptical about the way big pharmaceutical companies get theire products approved. Thinteresting read
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    CMB
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    Along the same lines, was reading this article the other day and found it interesting.

    http://blogs.hbr.org/cs/2012/09/big_..._funds_it.html

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    Yes, a common problem in any area of science is the null hypothesis - the hypothesis not supported - makes dull reading and therefore journals tend to only print studies that have a positive result. This skews the scientific method in which theories fall or stand on the number of replicable positive studies that are printed. Only print the positive - hypothesis supported - and ignore the null studies and you end up with a false position on whatever theory is being tested.

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    When it comes to antidepressants, nobodies really wise on the mechanism in which they work.
    We can say that they work at this receptor and that receptor thereby increasing or inhibiting this neurochemical but that's about the extent of it.
    Nobody can say for sure how these changes effect the mood balance, depression, anxiety, etc.., it all comes down to studies for testing the efficacy.

    Botched studies, although very unfortunate and morally wrong, come as no suprise. For these companies, there's only one goal, money.
    It doesn't matter if it works or not, as long as they can say that it works, then they can make a profit.
    Pharmaceuticals that don't work have one extra benefit though, if it's ineffective, some, if not most doctors will think that the dose is too low to be effective, so they will increase the patients dose. The pharmaceutical company thereby sells more and makes more.

    It's disgusting, I know, I take it a little more to heart, studying in this field, as I may one day very well work for one of the pharma corps.
    I most certainly would only ever state the truth in any studies I conducted but the fact is, if I won't botch my results, they would quite easily replace me with somebody who will...
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    Every prescription should be accompanied with complete electronic online access to the entire scientific history of studies that led to that substance being in that person’s hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mavinry4 View Post
    Every prescription should be accompanied with complete electronic online access to the entire scientific history of studies that led to that substance being in that person’s hand.
    I disagree.

    People begin looking in to contraindications, side effects, etc.. and get worried.
    Then there's the hypochondriacs
    Then there's the fact most won't read it.
    Then there's the people who come to false conclusions.

    The doctor's should be fully educated on what they prescribe and they should be the one's to educate the patients in the correct manner.

    The fact is though, the docotors aren't able to do so and/or cant be bothered.

    Pharmacists have a better understanding of the medication. People should go to doctors for diagnosis and then be sent to the pharmacist. The pharmacist then chooses the correct medication and informs the patient about the medication.
    Last edited by kritikal; 23-09-12 at 10:29 PM.

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    anyone whom takes perscription medication needs to have read the "drug-x' guide.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kritikal View Post
    I disagree.

    People begin looking in to contraindications, side effects, etc.. and get worried.
    Then there's the hypochondriacs
    Then there's the fact most won't read it.
    Then there's the people who come to false conclusions.

    The doctor's should be fully educated on what they prescribe and they should be the one's to educate the patients in the correct manner.

    The fact is though, the docotors aren't able to do so and/or cant be bothered.

    Pharmacists have a better understanding of the medication. People should go to doctors for diagnosis and then be sent to the pharmacist. The pharmacist then chooses the correct medication and informs the patient about the medication.
    +1 on that.

    a lot of the time, the average Jo Blow with the average prescribed dug is good to go with all the info they may desire. But there are situations where some or even any of the info is detrimental to the treatment of certain patients / conditions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kritikal View Post
    I disagree.

    People begin looking in to contraindications, side effects, etc.. and get worried.
    Then there's the hypochondriacs
    Then there's the fact most won't read it.
    Then there's the people who come to false conclusions.

    The doctor's should be fully educated on what they prescribe and they should be the one's to educate the patients in the correct manner.

    The fact is though, the docotors aren't able to do so and/or cant be bothered.

    Pharmacists have a better understanding of the medication. People should go to doctors for diagnosis and then be sent to the pharmacist. The pharmacist then chooses the correct medication and informs the patient about the medication.


    I like this idea. Doctors can spend more time on patients and figuring out whats wrong with them. Pharmacists can spend more time on the deep and dirty science of the chemicals they are selling.

    So many times I've have to get some medication from the Pharmacy, and the pharmacist looked at the prescription and said, "I'll give you the generic brand, it's cheaper". They know that two pills, one made by a generic brand, one made by a well known pharmaceutical company, are the same fucking chemical.

    I hear a lot of stories about drug companies giving free gifts and football tickets and what not to doctors so that the doctors would prescribe their drug over another company's drug. I feel the lolz when a Pharmacist can **** that whole system up .

    I wonder why Pharmacists are so less vulnerable to corruption. Perhaps the drug companies haven't caught on, and are still bribing the wrong people.

    Either way, that's a really good idea Krit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mavinry4 View Post
    I like this idea. Doctors can spend more time on patients and figuring out whats wrong with them. Pharmacists can spend more time on the deep and dirty science of the chemicals they are selling.

    So many times I've have to get some medication from the Pharmacy, and the pharmacist looked at the prescription and said, "I'll give you the generic brand, it's cheaper". They know that two pills, one made by a generic brand, one made by a well known pharmaceutical company, are the same fucking chemical.

    I hear a lot of stories about drug companies giving free gifts and football tickets and what not to doctors so that the doctors would prescribe their drug over another company's drug. I feel the lolz when a Pharmacist can **** that whole system up .

    I wonder why Pharmacists are so less vulnerable to corruption. Perhaps the drug companies haven't caught on, and are still bribing the wrong people.

    Either way, that's a really good idea Krit.
    Thank you, but I can't take the credit. It's a common debate in the industry, I just like the idea.

    There is some degree of this "corruption", for want of a better word, going on in the pharmaceutical industry. Not all pharmacies carry every brand of the medication, sometimes it's because they're smaller, sometimes it's because the pharmaceutical companies will give them a larger cut of the sale. There's not a lot of it going on though. I imagine the fact that the pharmacists run the pharmacy guild plays a role.

    It's generally the newer medications, the ones the pharma company owns a patent on, that are pushed on to doctors. A certain level of persuasion goes on and they're handed a bunch of samples. You won't find samples for a drug that's ten years old, it's the new quirky substances that no one else has the rights to produce. Pharma companies also go to great lengths to keep these rights. They'll make improvements to the formulation, change the administration procedure, etc.. so they can have a new patent on the same substance. It's all a game to keep profits high, not to help people.

    I guess it's the fact that the companies are in the business of treating diseases, improving well being, etc.. that we take such great notice of what goes on. Look at all the other industries, they have worse tactics that are deemed fair play. What can you do though? A companies always going to do what it can to beat its competitors.

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