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  1. #1
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    SMOKESCREEN Launch in 3...2...1...

    Firstly, let me start with (another) brief introduction.

    I'm almost 33 years old, and I've been a smoker since I was 18 years old. I've tried pretty much everything you can think of to quit the smokes and had failed everytime. Figuring I had nothing to lose, I starting vaping just over 2 weeks ago, and have gone from averaging half a pack a day, to now about 1 analog a day...and they are starting to taste like crap.

    I've always held a bit of an interest in politics, but never had the movition to do anything about it. This changed just before Easter when I went to http://www.ideservetobeheard and filled out the "Contact Your Local MP" form. The response I got was a pathetic piece of marketing spin and pissed me off enough to finally put my thoughts into actions.

    I'm now putting the finishing touches on a "Dangers of Smoking" site that I plan to use to (hopefully) start getting some answers from the people in our government that are more than happy to spend our taxes on something that hasn't even been proven to work, while preventing things that HAVE been proven to work because they are too afraid to stand up to special interest groups.

    So I invite you all to have a look at http://smokescreen.neogotham.net and let me know what you think. I'm planning the "official" launch tomorrow via Facebook.

    Cheers,
    soundasleep

  2. #2
    Sik
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    Governments tend to be retarded. Kinda hard to avoid when they are run by polticians.

    If someone formed an a-political political party which actually dealt with issues and policy through research and balanced review, I might actually become a citizen and bother to vote. :P

    Smokers areare a group of society who are unattractive and easy to step on or ignore. If you do step on smokers, no one else will give 2 fucks and smokers themselves tend not to react. They are easy to persecute, because the majority of them feel that they shouldnt really smoke anyway.... Yep even those who like doing it mostly have a guilty consience. Smokers non smoking friends and family tend to reinforce that notion in a way they wouldn't for use of other drugs, such as alcohol.

    Bland packaging is a complete and utter waste of fucking time and taxpayers money. The black hole around PV's and Nicotine juice prevents people from easily acquiring IMO one of the most effective NRT options available.

    Theres alot of utterly stupid fucking legislation that is in place because it suited someones political line at the time and made appearance of a strong policy, even thought its completely and utterly ineffectual. I dunno who's more stupid tho. Them... Or us for putting them in charge.

    edit; good luck with yer site
    Current Vape: Variable Wattage mod, EPM Boge tanks, Something Fruity

  3. #3
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    I haven't read all of it yet .. went through all the text (well done, 1 typo so far, 'and contains more spin that a cycling exercise class' .. should be than)

    I would drop the bit on the ecig page about dosage .. the 'The amount of nicotine is PV liquid is usually 4mg, 8mg, 12mg or 24mg – so the dosages are no more dangerous than other existing NRTs.'

    This is not technically correct, since its 4,8,12 or 24mg per ml, an important distinction. Then since many (probably most) carts now are larger than a ml. The actual nic quantity is far higher than any forms of NRT as such and likely to be significantly more dangerous in reality. Just pointing out a statement like that can easily be discounted and thus highlighted in an attack. I realise that in actuality a great deal of that nic is destroyed in the vaporisation process so the actual 'dosage' (absorbed nic) is a great deal less than the nic consumed in the device.

    This is probably the greatest let down of the current devices, the fact that the nicotine that stays active is based on a great deal of factors and thus we will have problems getting a true accurate measured dose. at least until some drug company decides to throw some money at it and then sell us single use carts with accurate dosing for the same price as individual cigarettes. They managed it for inhalers after all.

    sorry rambling..

    damn good read, very enlightening actually and some nice facts and figures in there. There is not a huge tilt towards ecigs, not sure if you are trying to blindside them, you seen to be more standing up for smokers rights than up in arms over possible ecig bans..

    good luck with it too.
    Last edited by Stoney; 01-05-11 at 01:35 AM. Reason: added stuff and typos
    In order of useful: Provari V2 and V1, vamo, eGo twist, Katana v3, Hex, Orion v2, LavaTube, eGo x 6, VMAX, 510N, Tick V2, Tick V1, noEgo 18650, noEgo 14650 , Indulgence x 2, 905 6v mod, KR808D



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post

    damn good read, very enlightening actually and some nice facts and figures in there. There is not a huge tilt towards ecigs, not sure if you are trying to blindside them, you seen to be more standing up for smokers rights than up in arms over possible ecig bans..
    I'm not criticizing just this is my take on it.

    I'm sure you would agree that quitting the addiction itself would be better than continuing it in a much healthier fashion. as good as vaping is for us "would be still smoking" people.
    I absolutely agree with vaping as the best quit smoking aid, however I believe that to seriously try to quit smoking, people should atleast Genuinely try some of the other methods available be it cold turkey, patches, gum or whatever.

    I don't think the point of this site is to specifically endorse e-cigarettes over other quit smoking methods, but more to offer it as a choice for those genuinely wanting a better life

    an objective site for if say a reporter was to do some research on proper methods
    it has hard hitting opinions, it's objective, it's referenced, it's to the best of my knowledge factual, and most importantly if anyone has a problem with smoking, smokers, electronic ciggarettes, or quitting methods in general, this really is a one stop shop.

    if you think about it this way, electronic smoking is not a very well known alternative, and anyone that has "heard of it" is usually quite skeptical, as i'm sure we all were (I was), the more objective but positive steps like this one out there in the real world the better IMHO

    Further Note I want to see some research done on good quality nicotine, and good quality juices, not research that was done in it's prime with crappy cheap electronic cigarettes.
    Last edited by Raxor; 01-05-11 at 02:16 AM.
    If it's a great day do die, it's a better day to live

    JuiceWhore Sig

    Disclaimer: this is my opinion, everyone may disagree with me but unless my math is wrong, i'm right .

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the feedback guys!

    @Stoney: Fixed the typo (I'm sure people will still fine more) and changed the line to:

    "The amount of nicotine is PV liquid is usually 4mg, 8mg, 12mg or 24mg per ml – so with the average cartridge holding less than 1ml, the dosages are no more dangerous than other existing NRTs"

    I know that there are MANY options to hold more than a ml (I think my eGo mega cartos are about 2.5ml), but 510 carts and tanks are about 0.5ml, so not including "the mod scene" I think it's still a reasonable statement. Although the letter/website doesn't include it, I'm waiting for the "but nicotine is deadly" argument with a "so is x,y,z in your average laundry or kitchen" response

    The site is standing up for smokers' rights, but I'm trying to do it from a logical viewpoint. As long as tobacco remains legal, I think lobby groups are just pushing the situation far too far.

    I didn't want to focus too much on ecigs, as I didn't want to draw too much attention to them. I figured the best approach was to just include all options and let others make their own decisions. Pity the government doesn't take the same approach ;p

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raxor View Post
    Further Note I want to see some research done on good quality nicotine, and good quality juices, not research that was done in it's prime with crappy cheap electronic cigarettes.
    It would be interesting to know how much of our nic is from tobacco and how much is synthetic. I'd also like to see a better study on comparing amounts vaped to amounts smoked - I can't seem to find accurate nicotine absorbtion figures (ie, month vs airways vs lungs vs skin) anywhere!

    I'm still concerned about what the hell the primer is made out of. Got most of it out of my last atty, but still tasted weird for about the first 0.2-0.3ml.

  7. #7
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    yep, i sort of figured that .. good stuff.

    @Raxor .. new or old ecig, its still destroying nic. I vape at least 3ml a day of 24mg juice, thats 72mg of nic. Since an average cigarette has little more than a mg (though I was a rollie smoker and I have never found a definitive answer on the amount of nic in rollie tobacco) thats far more nic than I used to inhale.
    yet .. I used to be able to chew a 4mg nicobate and now I can't stand the burning taste for longer than 30 seconds.

    I was playing with different heaters in nhaler ao-miser the other day and made a long heater enclosed by wick, this device gave amost no vapour but massive TH and a headache shortly afterwards. I think cause the lower temperature of the wire was not destroying as much of the nic.
    To me that indicates a well regulated system would need strict control on internal temperatures and much higher manufacturing tolerances than we now get, just to even try and get some precision into a dose. This is where the ecig will fall down as a therapeutic device, at least in the eyes of researchers. We know ourselves that the body tends to self regulate .. you vape more on weak nic without consciously thinking about it.
    Hopefully some researchers can remove the blinders and start to study it more on its actual effectiveness as witnessed by anecdotal evidence ( it fricking works) instead of using a test tube and stupid test methodologies to prove it can't work.

    thousands of people verifying its effectiveness can;t be ignored for ever. surely.
    In order of useful: Provari V2 and V1, vamo, eGo twist, Katana v3, Hex, Orion v2, LavaTube, eGo x 6, VMAX, 510N, Tick V2, Tick V1, noEgo 18650, noEgo 14650 , Indulgence x 2, 905 6v mod, KR808D



  8. #8
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    why is this in off topic ?
    you want me to move it to general ?
    In order of useful: Provari V2 and V1, vamo, eGo twist, Katana v3, Hex, Orion v2, LavaTube, eGo x 6, VMAX, 510N, Tick V2, Tick V1, noEgo 18650, noEgo 14650 , Indulgence x 2, 905 6v mod, KR808D



  9. #9
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    Typo in Final thought and conclusions at the bottom of the page.

    Further education will reduce the number of smokers, not the colour of the box. Stopping people from starting to smoke is much easier, and cheaper in the long run, that trying to get an addict to stop.

    should be than

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post

    @Raxor .. new or old ecig, its still destroying nic. I vape at least 3ml a day of 24mg juice, thats 72mg of nic. Since an average cigarette has little more than a mg (though I was a rollie smoker and I have never found a definitive answer on the amount of nic in rollie tobacco) thats far more nic than I used to inhale.
    From everything I've read so far, there is some extra calculations that need to be included. Only about 50% of the nic makes it into the vapor in the first place (doesn't get vaporised by the atty) and of that, only 50% makes it into our bodies. I believe that's where the final 10-40% absorbed figure comes from.

    So at 72mg of nice juice a day, only ~28.8mg (using 40%) makes it into your body. That's about 30 analogs. Sure, a "heavy" habit, but not too bad given the lethal dose for a heavy smoker is around 80-100mg (at once). As long as you never feel sick, or get headaches I can't see the problem. I know a guy who has been known to drink 3-4l of Cola a day. That's GOTTA be worse for you in the long run!

    Not to mention without combustion there is nothing else nasty going along for the ride

    (And yes, I initally thought being a "Smoking Info" site it wasn't directly about ecigs and therefore off topic - appears I was wrong

    @GirlyPantz: Thanks, fixed

 

 
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